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Old 07-14-2010, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Not yet
251 posts, read 373,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Oh BTW, this morning I just caught the tail-end of the "alphabet" news today about the woman who was to be... what again? Stoned to death or whipped to death for committing adultery? Yeah; that's it. But world-wide outrage reduced that sentence to a much more tolerant... what again? Oh yeah: hanging. Seems only reasonable to me. Sharia laws again. Brutal chauvinism proudly on display.

Is this the identical punishment for adulterous men in Islam?


Quran doesn't call for stoning, experts insist - CNN.com


Stoning in the Bible whatever , How do the Jewish and Christians critical of Islam , Islam gives a condition for the stoning is impossible to be achieved but bible is whatever

Bible Stoning_


do not have noticed that all Islamic countries knew what it means the law of stoning, so you do not find in...why? You will not find a woman and a man commits adultery in front of people in the street..This is a condition of stoning So you will not find in the Islamic countries only when * Shiite Iran as a misunderstand Islam...


pleas open your mind rifleman, I know, YOU as an atheist deny the religions mainly,
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Old 07-14-2010, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,367,457 times
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Default Lord! This is logical?

Your presentation of ancient biblical culture and script, of proceedings several thousand years ago, is irrelevant to today's courts and justice. Christians and Jews also used to crucify people I hear tell. I understand that is still used in some fanatic Muslim countries as well. Talk about savage tribalism.

Well, whatever keeps the illiterate Muslim peasants frightened out of their minds, and also keeps the men in power over women, both politically and sexually.

Please provide me one link where a Christian country has recently (within the past say 100 years...) sentenced anyone to a public stoning, as was recently done for the unfortunate woman I cited. Is this really your defense? That Christians used to partake of total savagery several hundred years ago?

But now we see, far more humanly, her newest fate is likely to be hanged for adultery. In addition to her past public humiliation and flogging.

Wow! Now if we applied that fate universally to men and women everywhere, we'd have to kill off about 60% of the world's population, more so amongst us chauvinistic men of course.

Naaahh. We'd better not go that route, huh? Let's just kill the women, and keep them terrified, subservient and cowering sexually!

Last edited by rifleman; 07-14-2010 at 12:48 PM..
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Old 07-14-2010, 12:11 PM
 
5,906 posts, read 5,184,041 times
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Quote:
The Iranian embassy in London released a statement last week which said "according to information from the relevant judicial authorities in Iran, she will not be executed by stoning punishment." The statement also declared claims of stoning "false news" and implied that her sentence would be commuted, most likely by hanging.
Feminist Wire Daily Newsbriefs: U.S. and Global News Coverage

Frankly, it doesn't matter HOW this grown woman is executed, she's still being put to death under a primitive, sexist, and abusive set of laws designed to control WOMEN.

Please, someone show me any press release of a MAN being executed for adultery in any Islamic nation.

Sharia upsets most of us in the western world because it is filled with unconscionable breaches of basic human rights. We ALL live in the 21st century now, and it's despicable that any nation would still treat its people (regardless of gender or age) in this manner. Yes, it may (still) be the right of those nations to persist with sharia, but there is nothing to stop me from vocalizing my absolute disgust and rejection of it.
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Old 07-14-2010, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
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Default Just FYI

Here's the related link (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/me...id=ZxogBKDbOoV) with commentary for snippets, edited for brevity:

"Her lawyer, Mohommad Mostafaei, told CNN that Ashtiani confessed to the crime after being subjected to 99 lashes. She later recanted that confession and has denied wrongdoing, he said.

(rifleman's notes: Nice judicial incentive! I wonder if the four actual witnesses to this act of heresy were there at the flogging)

Ashtiani's case has drawn international attention and many human rights activists have called for the sentence to be changed. Protesters in London, England, on Saturday condemned the sentence and called for the end of hanging and stoning executions during a rally outside the Iranian Embassy.



But Ajdar Sharifi said Sunday that "whenever the minister (Sadeq Larijani) orders the verdict again ... it will take place despite the Western media propaganda," according to IRNA.

"We do not pay attention to the Western media," IRNA quoted Ajdar Sharifi as saying.

(rifleman's notes: Of course not! Who cares about how the rest of the advancing and civilized world might perceive your barbaric ancient tribal customs!)

Last week, in what was the Islamic republic's first public statement on the case, Iran seems to back away from an execution-by-stoning sentence, although it left open the possibility that Ashtiani could be executed by another method.

... Ashtiani still faced the possibility of execution. "We have noted in the past that those who have been sentenced to stonings have gone on to be hanged," he said. "That remains a concern."

From:Iran execution of woman temporarily halted, state media reports - CNN.com

This has little or nothing to do with my atheism (my disbelief in any imaginary God figures) imanway. You apparently seek only to deflect from the larger topic here. It has to do with common decency and human rights and gender equality and political freedom, versus brutal tribal savagery that persists in most Muslim countries. Mobs of yowling, shrieking, illiterate male goatherds surging though the streets, picking just the right sized rock so that the victim will not die too quickly from a single impact? (That's in the Qu'Ran, BTW...)

And you hope this way of life will be "victorious" all over the world? I'll be arming my daughters for that little event, you can bet on it!

Last edited by june 7th; 07-14-2010 at 03:33 PM..
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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rayneinspain: Very well stated. I could harldy agree more. How can a sentence be "commuted" by HANGING? Apparently we don't all live in the 21st century (unless it's BCE). Sharia law is appalling, and it boggles the mind how anyone with a sense of justice can defend it. To ask why it upsets me seems completely disingenuous.
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:15 PM
 
5,906 posts, read 5,184,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
Moderator cut: Orphaned

Stoning law applies to both men and women there is no difference
NOT TRUE. Being buried to one's waist (with upper body leverage to enable escape) is NOT THE SAME as being buried to one's neck.

One is lip service. The other is a death sentence with no chance of appeal.

Quote:
Did you know that to achieve the condition of four witnesses saw the process of sexual Will never be achieved So,you Can not find the a man and woman stoned in the Islamic world means this(this means that adultery was committed almost publicly)


note: publicly=stone no more (Islam gives a great opportunity for a Muslim, even if committed adultery a hundred times)


you did not answer why in all Islamic countries that apply Islam do not find this stoning as Iran? The answer is you have in the link above

This a Iranian woman was a victim of a Shiite judge has a misunderstanding of the religion..

Penalty for Adultery in Islam. - Jad's Thoughts - Your freedom is worth more than you think. Take advantage of it while you can. (http://jadmadi.net/blog/2007/09/26/penalty-for-adultery-in-islam/ - broken link)
More dodging, more deflection.

Using the "bad interpretation" excuse over and over and over and over does nothing more than confirm our suspicions.

It IS sexist. It IS one-sided. It IS barbaric.

Sharia is RELIGIOUS LAW, and a severe way to control its followers...

...and that equates to imprisonment, not choice.

There is no beauty, love, fairness, or equality in stoning, hanging, or beating a woman for adultery.

Not in the western world.

Save your excuses.

Quote:
I am as muslim woman, I live in the shadow of Islam in peace and comfort Millions of girls and women like me,Who was tell you that women are oppressed in Islam, Maybe you hear about some of the women oppressed but they are also in Judaism, Christianity and Hinduism But your media is Focus only on islam..

I am honestly, proud being girl muslim, Is not true that women are oppressed, you find that men are oppressed by women
IF THAT WERE TRUE, and it isn't, we'd be posting news stories about Muslim men being tortured, stoned to death, etc...because HUMAN RIGHTS APPLY TO EVERYONE.

Last edited by june 7th; 07-14-2010 at 02:38 PM..
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,367,457 times
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Default You asked: I answer.

Oh I agree, ma'am. There should be no differences between male and female inequalities and punishments. Unfortunately, this is not the documented case in Islam. I'm surprised you defend it's core values, quite frankly. Perhaps you work for the state or are a virtual prisoner in an actively chauvinistic Muslim country, or are being watched.

A suggestion: do freely come and live in America for just a couple of years. We have many Muslim communities here. (but be warned: you may not want to go back to wherever..)

(and... my apologies for assuming you were a male. We can't know unless you tell us...).

1) It should be obvious that I am an ardent supporter of women's right as well. I cannot abide male chauvinism.

2) I did indeed see that this was the likely result of a particular judge's personal biases. But it was still upheld. Where's the public anger and dismay at this verdict?

If some local judge here in America tried to execute someone (first by public stoning, and then retreating to the more quiet and private hanging, but only because he was biased against this one woman) the result would be a vast public outcry of injustice, along with defenders of the wronged woman arriving to physically save her no matter how.

But apparently the death sentence is still likely in this case under Sharia or Islam. Unprotested.

As to the duality of the law, apparently there has been a more than a few such public stonings of women in the past few years, but none for men. What? There's been no adulterous men in all of Islam in the past 10 years? Amazing!

And since yes it does mandate four male (or two female..) witnesses, how did this woman receive such a cruel punishment? There's no mention of any witnesses, but so what? Is simple adultery rightfully punishable by death? In addition to the 99 lashes under which she "confessed"?

That's not barbaric enough? I can get any confession out of anyone under such circumstances. Even that the victim is indeed the Anti-Christ. Or Noah himself. Anything! Such confessions under duress are inadmissible in the courts here, precisely because they are invalid.

A culture based on tortured confessions, of skewed gender equality, of outright chauvinism, publicly known judicial biases and antiquated theistic laws?

It's OK: you can have it there forever, but do not try to import idiotic, stupid and barbarous laws into an educated and free country. Yes, we have our various problems in the West, but we have long ago stopped public humiliation, physical mutilation and execution, especially for a minor infraction. Why not religious banishment, having to wear a certain colored burkah for a year, or even house arrest or local imprisonment for, say, 6 months?

But death? Just applied to the women in reality? How intolerable and unjust. IMHO...

Last edited by rifleman; 07-14-2010 at 02:33 PM..
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:44 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,423,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
Jazzymom, I'm really surprised do you know why?

Because I know that there are Jews who deny that the Koran the word of God ...

Do you know that Sharia is derived from the Koran?

If you go back to the political page here you will find that I put so many links to the Muslim world who condemned Islamic extremism..


Millions of Muslims that deny to extremism ..

Because they do not represent the religion of Islam but are misguided

So, Islam is not barbaric when you attributed to it the barbarism so you are Attack On your lord , I probably do not care if said these words atheist but you as jews I wonder!

Do you deny that the Jews are acts of barbarism and destroyed? That many of the Jews against their actions all over the world

I said: The only book that came from Allah is the Qur'an. I was making a point that all the others hadith, and sharia are inovations. My point was that sharia is thus man made.

Do I believe the qur'an? NO, but I do accept that Muslims see it as coming from Allah? yes.
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Old 07-16-2010, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Not yet
251 posts, read 373,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayneinspain View Post
NOT TRUE. Being buried to one's waist (with upper body leverage to enable escape) is NOT THE SAME as being buried to one's neck.

One is lip service. The other is a death sentence with no chance of appeal.



More dodging, more deflection.

OH, MY GOD

Using the "bad interpretation" excuse over and over and over and over does nothing more than confirm our suspicions.

It IS sexist. It IS one-sided. It IS barbaric.


If Islam is barbaric why many MANY MANY of his followers and on the rise

That means a billion and half Muslims are unhappy

YOU ARE FREE IN YOUR CONCEPT


Sharia is RELIGIOUS LAW, and a severe way to control its followers...

...and that equates to imprisonment, not choice.

There is no beauty, love, fairness, or equality in stoning, hanging, or beating a woman for adultery.

WOW, WHY a billion and half Muslims THEN? ALL beating,stoning,hanging ...etc

IF ARE THAT THEN NO MUSLIM ANYMORE


Not in the western world.

Save your excuses.

WHAT'S ELSE?

IF THAT WERE TRUE, and it isn't, we'd be posting news stories about Muslim men being tortured, stoned to death, etc...because HUMAN RIGHTS APPLY TO EVERYONE.

Really , Completely, Fully,it applied ON men that was in iran before a few years



thanks
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Old 07-16-2010, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Not yet
251 posts, read 373,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
I said: The only book that came from Allah is the Qur'an. I was making a point that all the others hadith, and sharia are inovations. My point was that sharia is thus man made.

Do I believe the qur'an? NO, but I do accept that Muslims see it as coming from Allah? yes.

what about your torah then ?
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