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Old 07-27-2010, 02:05 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
Islam is the religion of survival. I wonder how can one to criticizes God!

We Muslims read this verse :

allah says in the Quran: "Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam it won't be accepted of him, and he will be one of the losers in the hereafter".



me would rather lose anywhere, but not lose in the hereafter.


that hellfire is eternal. It never ends and we never die when we go there.

If anyone wouldn't believe all this, I believe.

Often I repeat, if I wanted that reach the summit Must make a sacrifice for it So, Why I embrace to freedom ended and leave the eternal freedom.


this the shariah Which describe it as savage and barbarian it in fact the road to paradise, I would not be stupid to Waive about it


Life is very short I can live about 60 or 80 or 90 and then what?


then Paradise Or Hell ..

This life is not our real place there must be another day...

Where we go to God, who governs and decides who is right on this world.

Who was ignorant, Who was mistaken.........


Unfortunately, when we know May be too late or the opportunity has passed.

Any religion that sees itself as having the only truth is dangerous. A religion that enforces uniformity on its adherents is dangerous. Islam does both.

A religion that views religious law as being inseparable from the laws of the country is dangerous. Islam does this too.

The fact that so many muslims on this forum continue to stand up and defend Sharia is scary.

In every non muslim country where the muslims have settled, they have started to push for sharia. That is scary.

Those countries that have pluralistic and democratic societies should watch this and be very wary because many in Islam want to not only install sharia but to see a caliphate come into being and make no mistake that is a step back to a dark place.

Those who love living in a democratic society with separation of church and state need to be steadfast in making sure that sharia never makes even a small step into any part of our societies.
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Old 07-27-2010, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,473,051 times
Reputation: 8776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
A child of 9 -12 is not physically ready, nor emotionally ready to be a wife or mother. They are still children.

I have an 11 year old and I cannot imagine her being married......
Yes, in the West women do not marry until the age of consent, which is considerably higher than puberty. Even then there are marriages that do not work out. I cannot imagine the horror and resignation and sadness that Muslim women go through being married, being young and not consenting and being arranged by parents.

Even in non-Muslim countries where there are parent instigated marriages the participants meet and can refuse.

State-sanctioned cruelty. These people better hope there is no God, because they are going to have a LOT for which to answer if there is.
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Old 07-27-2010, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,605 posts, read 9,279,762 times
Reputation: 5448
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i argued many times in many forums about sharia in islam .
but all of them focused on why we impose islamic laws on nonmuslims
so i want for this discussion to be quite different here

my question is , if sharia law not contradict with commands of God of other relegions , why you deny it ?
is it because it's islamic ? or because it's issues oppose your relegion ?


so, what do you think sharia is ?
For me, "what it is" is a moot point. I do not care "what" it is. There is already a system of law in place and if the code is inadequate there are mechanisms to correct the code. We do not need a secondary code to confuse the issues of law.

In order for Sharia or any other system to co-exist with another legal system there must be a hierarchy in which one system prevails when conflicts of code or punishment arise. In other words, Sharia becomes a subset of the US legal code or the US legal code becomes a subset of Sharia. It does not make any sense to me to complicate things so much when we already complain about the complexities of Federal vs State vs Local law enforcement and the issues we have faced with Federal mandate vs State's rights.

In my opinion, it just does not belong regardless of the merits of the system. I feel that if there are specific codicils that make sense in this country, then our lawmakers should be encouraged to introduce them into our existing code. I do not think a new layer of courts and law are in the best interest of our communities.

The best way to keep order in a society is to keep the rules simple, straightforward and well known. We have already gone way too far away from those concepts and should not go further down that road.
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Old 07-27-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,605 posts, read 9,279,762 times
Reputation: 5448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Any religion that sees itself as having the only truth is dangerous. A religion that enforces uniformity on its adherents is dangerous. Islam does both.
Perhaps a little off topic for this thread, but I have to point out that truth is truth and there cannot be two truths without one being false. I agree that it is highly likely that NO religion has the monopoly on truth. I feel that many have pieces of the truth and shades of the truth, and perhaps some even have a pure truth here and there. I do not feel that anyone has the full and complete truth and that is where I think we can agree that any religion that sees itself as being the only one with truth is dangerous. Likewise any religion that sees no value in conceding that what others feel is truth could have some validity is very dangerous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
A religion that views religious law as being inseparable from the laws of the country is dangerous. Islam does this too.
I do not see why this is necessarily dangerous, it is just different than our beliefs. I do not see why it would be bad if the populous of the country knew the basis of law and agreed to live under it. There are a good many laws here in the US that many do not like and some even defy, but we all accept that we are accountable should we get caught breaking them, like it or not. We accept that our code is binding on use, why would it be wrong to accept a religious basis for our legal code instead of the whims of legislature?

I can see why it is inappropriate for a religious organization to push it's code on another legal system, but if the legal system is originally derived from the religious code it is just as valid as anything other source of moral or social convention.

I think if a country forms it's government based on a concept, whatever the concept is, it is acceptable for that country to base it's law on that same concept.
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,425 posts, read 8,779,173 times
Reputation: 7734
BBC News | EUROPE | Dutch far-right leader shot dead Read it and weep!
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:12 PM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,717,705 times
Reputation: 46025
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i argued many times in many forums about sharia in islam .
but all of them focused on why we impose islamic laws on nonmuslims
so i want for this discussion to be quite different here

my question is , if sharia law not contradict with commands of God of other relegions , why you deny it ?
is it because it's islamic ? or because it's issues oppose your relegion ?


so, what do you think sharia is ?
1) Because it's barbaric.
2) Because it's designed to oppress women.
3) Because it's really subject to the whim of religious authorities.
4) Because in a Western society, we believe in secular law as opposed to religious law. If you have a problem with that, then don't live in a Western society.
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Old 07-27-2010, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Not yet
251 posts, read 373,505 times
Reputation: 26
Islamic renewed in accordance with the time and place Which was available 1400 years ago is not now available, In customs and traditions,Islam approves developments of each era...

The presence of an abnormality of child marriage in Yemen, for example As the existence of cases of rape of a girl in America, for example ,Does this mean that American children are rape!


What is very clear that the marriage of young men and women was common in ancient times, in Judaism in Romans and spread to the era of Muhammad peace be upon him..


So Prophets have their gift, which gives them God without other human beings ...


Oxford Dictionary Bible" Mary (peace be upon her) was was 12 years old when she became impregnated...

One very remarkable thing about Mary is that she would almost certainly have been 12-14 years old when the angel Gabriel appeared to her. We know this because the common custom at that time was for girls to marry early, at that age. The Bible never gives Mary’s age when she got pregnant or gave birth to Jesus, and that is because when something happened that was common in the culture.. Truth Or Tradition - Does the Bible say how old / at what age Mary became pregnant with Jesus?



The Jews and the Christians and the Romans, Quraysh did not criticize to Mohamed peace be upon him because the marriage was not strange their culture.. This thing that need to be grasped


As you have your law, we have a our law which we live under the shadow of safety, Not separated church and state because our law ever comprehensive, so we do not force any one that agrees with it or supported ..


I will conclude the discussion here on this page ,Who wants to contribute to a positive debate About Sharia law, without any residue of racism or Bias ,talk rationally ,I personally do not welcome any bias in the debate


I hope that is not boxing



in rifleman 's page that's good Were elwill added a lot of explaining
here

http://www.city-data.com/forum/relig...ners-want.html



thanks
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Old 07-27-2010, 04:49 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,731,477 times
Reputation: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
Islamic renewed in accordance with the time and place Which was available 1400 years ago is not now available, In customs and traditions,Islam approves developments of each era...

The presence of an abnormality of child marriage in Yemen, for example As the existence of cases of rape of a girl in America, for example ,Does this mean that American children are rape!


What is very clear that the marriage of young men and women was common in ancient times, in Judaism in Romans and spread to the era of Muhammad peace be upon him..


So Prophets have their gift, which gives them God without other human beings ...


Oxford Dictionary Bible" Mary (peace be upon her) was was 12 years old when she became impregnated...

One very remarkable thing about Mary is that she would almost certainly have been 12-14 years old when the angel Gabriel appeared to her. We know this because the common custom at that time was for girls to marry early, at that age. The Bible never gives Mary’s age when she got pregnant or gave birth to Jesus, and that is because when something happened that was common in the culture.. Truth Or Tradition - Does the Bible say how old / at what age Mary became pregnant with Jesus?



The Jews and the Christians and the Romans, Quraysh did not criticize to Mohamed peace be upon him because the marriage was not strange their culture.. This thing that need to be grasped


As you have your law, we have a our law which we live under the shadow of safety, Not separated church and state because our law ever comprehensive, so we do not force any one that agrees with it or supported ..


I will conclude the discussion here on this page ,Who wants to contribute to a positive debate About Sharia law, without any residue of racism or Bias ,talk rationally ,I personally do not welcome any bias in the debate


I hope that is not boxing



in rifleman 's page that's good Were elwill added a lot of explaining
here

http://www.city-data.com/forum/relig...ners-want.html



thanks
God raped mary, so we can attitude doesn't fly with me.
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Old 07-27-2010, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,972,242 times
Reputation: 5074
I'm afraid that imanway's phrase "any bias in the debate" means any opinion not in favor of Sharia, or Islam in general. I don't like it when any religious dogma contaminates the laws of the state.
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:56 AM
 
5,906 posts, read 5,184,865 times
Reputation: 4536
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
I'm afraid that imanway's phrase "any bias in the debate" means any opinion not in favor of Sharia, or Islam in general. I don't like it when any religious dogma contaminates the laws of the state.
EXACTLY right. In all of the islamic literature and posts I've read in the last 6 months, I have yet to come across a single one that took an honest, objective view of itself...one that dared to be critical.

There IS no criticism of Islam by muslims. If there is such a self-critique, I welcome the link to the article, website, or post.
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