U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-10-2009, 07:41 PM
 
4 posts, read 5,761 times
Reputation: 10

Advertisements

but punishment for men and women are the same in islam , why did you think that it's for men advantage ?


You may SAY that punishment for men and women is the same, and the Qur'an may say so, but in practise it is not the same at all.
Unless you are self-deceived, lying to yourself, you know that is so. Women are judged much more harshly than men.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-10-2009, 10:42 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 23,001,491 times
Reputation: 6692
The issue of how it's actually done in real life is a significant one. I've read of Muslims who believe in Sharia, but do not believe in imposing it because they feel we are in a corrupt age where it can't be done in the correct manner.

That being said even if done correctly sharia, as I understand it, is problematic. If a man is killed for *publicly committing adultery exactly the same way a woman is it is still much harsher than many Christians would feel is just. It's not that we're pro-adultery, but our religion's founder clearly opposed such executions. More problematic is that sharia, in all times or places I'm aware of, does not allow Muslims to ever be ruled by non-Muslims. Now for much of my faith's history Catholics, ideally, were not to be subject to non-Catholics. However in modern times having autonomous "Christian states" and "Jewish states" as tributaries of a larger Muslim state is not tolerable in the West anymore than having Protestant or Jewish provinces subject to a vast Catholic-state. Lastly, and perhaps most difficult, is the issue of polytheist. As I understand Islam polytheists have no standing at all. They can be tolerated, but they are in a far worse position of subjection in virtually all societies ruled by sharia. They are allowed no representation in the national councils of any Islamic Republic or Caliphate I've heard of and have no specific or solid protections.

This isn't something I'm saying out of any hostility or ignorance of Islam. I have written a paper on the imposition of Islamic law for a class on Islam and nearly worked it into publishing shape. I think many claims of Islamic sexism and violence are unfair, at best, but the problems I'm stating here I sincerely believe are real as they have been discussed by Muslim scholars I've read. One way to get around them has been to interpret Islamic law in "a new way" based on... Dang I don't remember the name, but it's a bit like "the common good" or something. (I don't mean ijtihad, as I think that's just the idea you can still interpret Islamic law at all) Still the notion of interpreting Islamic law based on the common good, and discarding things like the hudud punishments, is pretty controversial so far as I know. Even among liberal Muslims I think there's a concern "the common good" could be reduced to a heartless utilitarianism or make the rules meaningless.

*True sharia I believe requires four witnesses. This should make the full punishment for adultery somewhat rare, but in this day and age some people might post their adultery on Youtube. Or surreptitiously tape someone's adultery and broadcast it to neighbors.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2009, 10:50 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 23,001,491 times
Reputation: 6692
All that said if a society is virtually all Muslim I might be okay with it having a "common good" version of sharia provided this is clearly what its people desire.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2009, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,561 posts, read 15,499,678 times
Reputation: 11439
Just watch how the leadership treats their people in Iran. No thank you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2009, 03:58 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,737,220 times
Reputation: 1770
The force of law should not be used to promote a religion, nor should a religion be the source of law. That goes for any law and any religion.

Laws should be based on rational principles, not divine revelations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2009, 10:44 AM
 
40,189 posts, read 26,814,572 times
Reputation: 6059
Sharia is a barbarous and ugly part of a primitive and unenlightened culture. Any God that needs humans to enforce His dominion by punishing them here on earth is a weak and impotent creation of human desire for power and control. Any God who is not powerful enough and desirable enough and loving enough to gain the support of humans without force and punishment is a weak, impotent, and very "unGodly" God completely undeserving of belief.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2009, 11:00 AM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 4,012,692 times
Reputation: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i argued many times in many forums about sharia in islam .
but all of them focused on why we impose islamic laws on nonmuslims
so i want for this discussion to be quite different here

my question is , if sharia law not contradict with commands of God of other relegions , why you deny it ?
is it because it's islamic ? or because it's issues oppose your relegion ?


so, what do you think sharia is ?
Sharia says I can beat my wife
Sharia says that we must kill homosexuals
Sharia says that we must whip people who drink alcohol
Sharia says that we must kill any aposate
Sharia says that we must have Jihad
Sharia says that we must kill anyone who criticizes Mohamad, Quaran, and Sharia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2009, 07:19 PM
 
Location: MSP
424 posts, read 1,071,721 times
Reputation: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i argued many times in many forums about sharia in islam .
but all of them focused on why we impose islamic laws on nonmuslims
so i want for this discussion to be quite different here

my question is , if sharia law not contradict with commands of God of other relegions , why you deny it ?
is it because it's islamic ? or because it's issues oppose your relegion ?


so, what do you think sharia is ?
Why do the laws of the Untied States upset you? Should we impose our laws in Egypt? Would you be opposed to that? Why? If it dosn't contradict with Muslim beliefs, why not? Is it because you oppose our democracy?
Think about it! This is how arrogant and condescending your question comes off. Are our laws not good enough for you? They are for me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2009, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 22,008,291 times
Reputation: 5074
MysticPhD: I agree with your post to a point, but we must all recall that Old Testament events sanctioned by its god are equally barbarous. Fortunately, our laws prohibit such goings-on. The "Islamic republics" with Sharia law have no such compunction. And remember that Jesus alledly stated that he came not to replace the old laws.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2009, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,505,053 times
Reputation: 8779
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
MysticPhD: I agree with your post to a point, but we must all recall that Old Testament events sanctioned by its god are equally barbarous. Fortunately, our laws prohibit such goings-on. The "Islamic republics" with Sharia law have no such compunction. And remember that Jesus alledly stated that he came not to replace the old laws.
Yes, and it's funny how various Christian denominations pick and choose among those laws, saying Christ did not mean to do away with this or that law.
If people followed that dictate by Christ and only took seriously Christ's own words in the New Testiment and got rid of Paul's ramblings, Christianity could become a very wonderful religion. Christ said the law of love is the new law. Paul taught us bitterness and spite.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top