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Old 11-16-2009, 10:50 AM
 
598 posts, read 832,349 times
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Fundamentally, all "religious laws" must comply with human society laws.

Sharia prescribes illegal activities. For example, some of the Sharia "laws" prescribes "stoning to death" -- this is a prescription of violent murders. Whenever "religious laws" confronts with the real laws, the "religious laws" looses, and the religion suffers setbacks (possibly banned for cult activities).
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Old 11-16-2009, 12:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
MysticPhD: I agree with your post to a point, but we must all recall that Old Testament events sanctioned by its god are equally barbarous. Fortunately, our laws prohibit such goings-on. The "Islamic republics" with Sharia law have no such compunction. And remember that Jesus alledly stated that he came not to replace the old laws.
The OT is merely important to validate the existence, mission and importance of Jesus. Jesus came to FULFILL the prophesis in the OT and remove the veil of ignorance about God that exists from reading those savage descriptions of the nature of God. The OT was necessary to establish the expectation of Jesus and predict the way His life and death would occur and the impact He would have for millennia. Jesus fulfilled all the expectations of His day and for every day since for 2000+ years. That is what fulfilling the OT means and that is what validates Christianity.

The veil of ignorance that blinded our ancestors to God's TRUE NATURE from the misinterpretations of the OT was lifted by Jesus and His example and teaching. It has no further role in understanding the NATURE of God . . . only righteousness and providing hope . . . Jesus is the TRUE NATURE of God . . . not the heinous misunderstandings of the OT. The prophesies being fulfilled for 2000+ years despite the errors in the OT are sufficient validation.1 Corinthians 2:16

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:14

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

All those heinous things attributed to God in the OT were no part of God . . . they were evil and only humans do evil. The biggest weapon against God is human ignorance and convincing humans that to remain ignorant is what God wants and prefers. Literalists and fundamentalists have convinced the ignorant that fear of God is what God wants . . . BUT that eliminates any true "love of God and each other." 1 John 4:7-8 (King James Version)

7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.


1 John 4:18

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment.
He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

The veil of ignorance that covers the reading of the OT reinforces and perpetuates the primitive motivation of fear of wrath and punishment . . . instead of God's loving concern and desire for us to avoid the natural consequences of our failure to mature spiritually. Reading through the mind and heart of Jesus removes that veil and allows us with the help of the Holy Spirit to see the underlying message of God's love correctly as maturing children of God. Jesus came specifically to remove that veil of ignorance and do away with such immature primitive impressions of God. Ephesians 4:14-15 (King James Version)

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into Him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Last edited by MysticPhD; 11-16-2009 at 12:31 PM..
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Old 11-16-2009, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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There are threats aplenty of hellfire and eternal suffering in the New Testament. Jesus did not only preach 'love' (assuming he existed at all). His alleged prophecy that he would return and the end would come within the lifetimes of many of his listeners ('signs in the Moon and stars') remains unfulfilled 200 years later. Many Christians regard the entire Bible (including the OT) as the Word of God. Parsing selected phrases from the NT is not a logical way to prove that Jesus and God are Love.

"...God's loving concern and desires for us to avoid the natural consequences of our failure to mature spiritually"? Sorry, can't agree with any of that.
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:19 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,044,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaysos View Post
Why do the laws of the Untied States upset you? Should we impose our laws in Egypt? Would you be opposed to that? Why? If it dosn't contradict with Muslim beliefs, why not? Is it because you oppose our democracy?
Think about it! This is how arrogant and condescending your question comes off. Are our laws not good enough for you? They are for me.
we don't have rights to impose our laws in other countries , and i didn't mean by this thread to suggest shariah in your country

i'm just trying to inform you what i know about shariah , and trying to know your view of justice and how shariah which i know oppose it
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:25 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,044,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Sharia is a barbarous and ugly part of a primitive and unenlightened culture. Any God that needs humans to enforce His dominion by punishing them here on earth is a weak and impotent creation of human desire for power and control. Any God who is not powerful enough and desirable enough and loving enough to gain the support of humans without force and punishment is a weak, impotent, and very "unGodly" God completely undeserving of belief.
can i understand from your view that you are against existence of policmen and prisons for crimers in your country
as for it will means that your government is weak and not powerfull enough and loving enough to gain the peace in the socity without force and punishments
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Old 11-17-2009, 09:00 AM
 
40,423 posts, read 26,940,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
can i understand from your view that you are against existence of policmen and prisons for crimers in your country
as for it will means that your government is weak and not powerfull enough and loving enough to gain the peace in the socity without force and punishments
No . . . police are for crimes against others . . . NOT against someone's particular beliefs about what their God wants. Religious punishment for a supposed Supreme Being is an oxymoron. Why would a Supreme Being require puny human beings to enforce His desires? Sharia is an ugly, barbaric, cultural disease.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Austin
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I have no problem with Sharia in Islamic countries, but it bothers me that many muslims want to impose it in the West.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,516,498 times
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In utopia I understand the Sharia concept is very nice and tolerable for both the man and the woman.

In the real world duties it was imposed by the Jihad because people deceive themselves of their significant duties.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:12 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,044,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No . . . police are for crimes against others . . . NOT against someone's particular beliefs about what their God wants. Religious punishment for a supposed Supreme Being is an oxymoron. Why would a Supreme Being require puny human beings to enforce His desires? Sharia is an ugly, barbaric, cultural disease.
the same is shariah
it's for crimes agianst others not against someone's particular beliefs
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,144 posts, read 19,271,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i argued many times in many forums about sharia in islam .
but all of them focused on why we impose islamic laws on nonmuslims
so i want for this discussion to be quite different here

my question is , if sharia law not contradict with commands of God of other relegions , why you deny it ?
is it because it's islamic ? or because it's issues oppose your relegion ?


so, what do you think sharia is ?
Probably because we have enough various sects of Christians in this country spouting wackiness to find room for yet another foreign religion to tell us what and what not to do.
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