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Old 06-30-2010, 06:31 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,493 times
Reputation: 161

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may be i misrepresented my aim from posting this thread
but actually i didn't mean to know your openion about imposing my laws on yours
i don't think that i have rights to do that , nor do i believe that islam gave me rights to do that

my basic issue was to know exactly the points of misunderstanding which most of you have about shariah , or at least if their is no misunderstanding then we can exchange our thought about advantages or disadvantages of such issue objectively and respectfully

as for example , when you says that under shariah laws the women can not drive a car , then it will mean that most of muslims countries arn't under shariah , and consequently you can't talk about any other muslim countries as if it was under shariah law

so , is prohibition of women to drive a car can be considered to be isuue in shariah laws which exist in islamic laws ?
if yes , then what is the proofs from quran and sunnah?
if not , then what is that mean that suadia laws are besed on shariah ?
by saying that specific country is based on shariah law , is that mean that all details of it's laws are mentiond in quran or saying of mohammed (pbuh) , or is that mean that it's laws contains theissues which are mentioned in quran and sunnah , while the rest was left to the society to determine it !
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Old 06-30-2010, 08:51 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,051 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
may be i misrepresented my aim from posting this thread
but actually i didn't mean to know your openion about imposing my laws on yours
i don't think that i have rights to do that , nor do i believe that islam gave me rights to do that

my basic issue was to know exactly the points of misunderstanding which most of you have about shariah , or at least if their is no misunderstanding then we can exchange our thought about advantages or disadvantages of such issue objectively and respectfully

as for example , when you says that under shariah laws the women can not drive a car , then it will mean that most of muslims countries arn't under shariah , and consequently you can't talk about any other muslim countries as if it was under shariah law

so , is prohibition of women to drive a car can be considered to be isuue in shariah laws which exist in islamic laws ?
if yes , then what is the proofs from quran and sunnah?
if not , then what is that mean that suadia laws are besed on shariah ?
by saying that specific country is based on shariah law , is that mean that all details of it's laws are mentiond in quran or saying of mohammed (pbuh) , or is that mean that it's laws contains theissues which are mentioned in quran and sunnah , while the rest was left to the society to determine it !

The wonder of the United States is that we have separation of church and state and everyone if free to live and practice their religion. We do not live under religious law and we have a constitution. Anywhere there is sharia there is government that is neither progressive nor democratic and if you think people living under sharia have rights you are mistaken.

Muslim countries living under sharia are backwards with very few rights. Any country that stones people to death in my view has lost the way and is living in the dark ages.
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,513 posts, read 10,327,737 times
Reputation: 6870
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i argued many times in many forums about sharia in islam .
but all of them focused on why we impose islamic laws on nonmuslims
so i want for this discussion to be quite different here

my question is , if sharia law not contradict with commands of God of other relegions , why you deny it ?
is it because it's islamic ? or because it's issues oppose your relegion ?


so, what do you think sharia is ?
In this country your laws would be antiquated, barbaric and in complete contradiction with our Constitution. Your laws are oppressive, humiliating and discriminatory and have little or no regard for human life or the freedom of individuals. This is what I personally think of your laws and if Muslims ever decide to impose these laws here in the United States, I would be the first to speak out against them. Maybe you should read what our Constitution has to say and then you will see the difference and why your Sharia Laws have no place in this country. Here are the links that you are more than welcome to read and make the comparison.

U.S. CONSTITUTION,

Bill of Rights and Later Amendments
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Old 07-01-2010, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,969,943 times
Reputation: 5074
The imposition of Sharia law is indefensible, both in terms of human rights and rational thinking. "why sharia is upsetting you"? How can such a question even be asked with a straight face?
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Old 07-01-2010, 01:57 PM
 
1,785 posts, read 3,020,911 times
Reputation: 3072
As a citizen of the United States, I look for MY law to come from the Constitution of our great country. You will note, that there are several items of our law which will go before our Supreme Court for clarification or to be corrected, reworded, struck out altogether.

Now here is the BEAUTY of our law: (1) It is based on another wonderful document called the Magna Carta. (2) Our Constitution is based on seperation between Church and State. As a Christian, I like that. My personal beliefs of God and the moral ethics of my religion should NEVER come before those of another citizen. (3) And finally, take a good long look at our Supreme Court: There are women sitting up there. Nuff said.
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:20 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 13,039,288 times
Reputation: 3984
why sharia upseting you ?

Since it has no bearing on my life, sharia does not upset me. But.....I do have trouble taking seriously, those who use bad grammar.
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Old 07-01-2010, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,368,316 times
Reputation: 3735
Default Same ol, same ol' !!!!

elwill, you seem to be trying to change your OP once "cornered" by the discussions here!

A few attaboys to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
Simply because Sharia is based on humiliating inequality with regard to non-muslims esp. and even among muslims themselves.

It is based on the Qur'an, Hadith, Al-Qiyas, and Ijma all of which have a complete hatred for those who are not muslim and refuse to submit to Allah. This is demonstrated throughout the history of Islam and its treatment of non-muslims.

...says dhimmis (rflmn notes: i.e.: us Westerners, Christians, atheists, Buddhists, etc....) are to be 'disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated.'

That is just for starters.
"Starters" is enough, frankly. Thanks for your summary, Shiloh1!

In my original home country of Canada, there has been a persistent effort by interloper Muslims, once they were generously allowed in through a legal immigration process, to attempt to inject their primitive, sexist and repressive laws onto those of a fully functioning society. even within those of Islamic descent.

Q: Do you ever wonder why many of these terrified people fled their original Islamo-fanatic-thugocracy home countries in the first place? To one that has successfully functioned as a full and decent democracy? Get it?

Open democracy and free will is, of course, completely anathema (an unacceptable concept, the philosophical opposite..) to sharia and Islam, obviously. Why would any rational freedom-respecting individual propose such tribal inequality? Tell me that, elwill! Or are you an unwitting victim of this mental bribery?

It's also now apparent that many Western European countries (Sweden, France, Germany, Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, America) are all experiencing major social and cultural problems with the legally and generously immigrated Muslims they (mistakenly?) allowed in. Mosque construction in highly controversial locations (across from NYC's Ground Zero Memorial? Huh? That'd be like allowing a Shinto Temple to be built next door to Pearl Harbor in 1943!); arguments to incorporate pagan and tribal sharia laws into those of their host country, proving an open desire to operate outside of the laws of a country, but just for those immigrants of Islamic origin.

Does nothing about the endless procession of human inequality, sexist bull-scheize or the subversion of human rights offend Islam? Or you?

(BTW, do not defend it all by just claiming I have some huge misunderstanding of Islam. Not so. That tired excuse will no longer sell.. Just answer the questions or debate the points raised. Or admit that Islam may be fatally flawed.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
In this country your laws would be antiquated, barbaric and in complete contradiction with our Constitution. Your laws are oppressive, humiliating and discriminatory and have little or no regard for human life or the freedom of individuals.
Well stated, ptsum, and culturally well proven now. Proselytizers of this stuff were either completely brainwashed as kids (quite possible...), or they are here as paid proselytizers, Fifth-Column* posters.

If so... hmmm... what to do, what to do.
_______________________

BTW, here's my an open and honest statement to those within Islam who intend to convert us by proselytizing or terrorism:

Americans have experienced and thus value the long and hard-won individual freedoms inherent in our country. So do Western Europeans, Australians, etc.. Most of us also fully realize our historical and political shortcomings, it's corruptions and the unfortunate global adventurism of some past politicians whose egos have outgrown their maturity.

But nonetheless, America is one great country. I personally chose to immigrate here for just those reasons, and I'll be damned if some outdated, primitive tribal society, literally a proven theistic thug-ocracy, will ever successfully make it's mark here.

So, IMHO, please: if your intent is to "convert" us, just go home, forget it and the pathetic and childish "Why don't you love Islam?" type posts.

Frankly, I'm saddened that the predominance of male dominated cultures in which Islam thrives continues to inflict it's arrogance and cruelty of the innocents under it's influence.
_________________________________

*Fifth Column: a politically subversive group intent on influencing public perceptions by proselytizing or propaganda via seemingly personal and "innocent" pleading presentations. Usually precedes a more aggressive cultural invasion.

Last edited by rifleman; 07-01-2010 at 10:12 PM..
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Old 07-02-2010, 02:55 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,731,102 times
Reputation: 591
Escaping theocracy is one of the many reason people tend to migrate to free countries..

YouTube - Citizenship: The Pursuit of Happiness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
I'm against sharia law imposed on EVERYBODY.

YouTube - Flagged Poetry mirrored - The True Justice of Sharia Law
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Old 07-02-2010, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,368,316 times
Reputation: 3735
Thanks, Gplex. I'm appalled, even though I know this stuff happens and is defended daily by the proponents of such a barbaric and tribal culture. As in: this thread.

Get it yet, elwill? Your "religion" is indefensible, and it may not be incorporated here, or in any freedom-respecting country.
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Old 07-12-2010, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,471,196 times
Reputation: 8776
I think the terrorists are having a hard time recruiting more human fodder and are really pushing an outreach for indigenous idiots who will fall for their 'religious' line. The word economy is not so good and some terrorist funding being cut off and/or followed by Western countries. America, propagandised as hating Muslims, has elected a president with a Muslim sounding name.

I think the terrorists try to recruit people into Islam as a 'peaceful' religion, which has them going to a mosque and taking religious lessons. Then they encounter violence and intolerance in the Koran. If the recruit tries to rationalise why God should act in such a way and start agreeing with it, they are invited to another mosque or another place in which to take lessons which is somewhat more radicalised, and gradually the person is lead into a group of more violence.

One reason why I think they are having problems recruiting is the quality of those terrorists in Mumbai.
Did anyone hear that broadcast and read about it? The terrorists were remote farm people. They were in that Mumbai hotel, but it was like a different world to them. They were so primitive that they had never seen toilets. They were religious and spared that woman who started saying Muslim prayers for the dead that the terrorists had murdered.

Those Mumbai terrorists were ignorant and ardent believers in Islam and were being handled by people who were neither. You could tell they were being manipulated horribly by listening to their phone conversations with their handlers who were telling them what to do 'in the name of God'.

In the U.S. we have had our fill of religions that are not tolerant of other religions. We have had our share of that and the trouble and heartache it causes for populations. It is primitive to think that the God who created the universe, all the planets and the beings and cultures who dwell on them, created only one path to Him and only one book that can be relied upon to speak for Him. Until the resurgence of the fundamentalist right wing I thought such religious prejudice had phased out in this country.

I think the more educated a population is, for the most part, the less fundamentalist it will be. I had been placed into a fundie Chrisitan church when young, but as soon as I read books and saw kids of different religions and took science classes I came an understanding that that little group had a sketchy view of the world and what truth and goodness were.
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