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Old 05-23-2008, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,479,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by goldengrain So people who disagree with you can only be un-American?
Or are you saying that Muslims cannot be American?
Or that fanatical Americans are not American?
I have no problem defining people who do not cherish our freedoms and wish to destroy both them and us as 'UnAmerican'.

That is where I draw the line.
We may verbally disagree.
We may have different religions, and so long as those religions do NOT disagree with our laws, I am fine with them.
Fanatics, even, are fine.

Freedom and annihilation - those are my yardsticks.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,593 posts, read 11,077,046 times
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How on God's green earth are topics like this even brought up? How, for one nanosecond can this even be a rational thought for discussion? Xenophobic hatemongering.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
So far the muslims that came here, only want to expose their religion and enjoy a few chit chat, I doubt that they are here to convert anyone and much less to make terrorists out of us.

I doubt the honorable muslims who come here seeking a better understandment and harmony between our cultures/religions have something to do with terrorism.
Well, your 'doubting' implies that you do not KNOW, and neither do the rest of us. That's the problem. You can see where it could be a very valid problem. I do not believe in a witch-hunt, but I do believe some very, very evil people hide behind religion to persuade people to go their way. Most of the followers of these religions do not weed these evil ones out and throw them to the dogs, but just tolerate them and look the other way.

So, what choice does the public have, but to question the motivations of these people?

Besides, in an above post, by Huckleberry:
P. Stone's gang of Chicago, Inc Muslim members were recruited by kadafi, caught and jailed. they were supposed to blow up some airplanes.
It's already happened. They got caught.

So, it is very possible that they will hide behind some stupid American, convincing him or her to do their dirty deeds. It is a logical move on their part.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:57 AM
 
2,955 posts, read 6,745,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
So, it is very possible that they will hide behind some stupid American, convincing him or her to do their dirty deeds. It is a logical move on their part.
The moral of the story: Don't be a stupid American.
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:02 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,485,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Well, your 'doubting' implies that you do not KNOW, and neither do the rest of us. That's the problem. You can see where it could be a very valid problem. I do not believe in a witch-hunt, but I do believe some very, very evil people hide behind religion to persuade people to go their way. Most of the followers of these religions do not weed these evil ones out and throw them to the dogs, but just tolerate them and look the other way.

So, what choice does the public have, but to question the motivations of these people?

Besides, in an above post, by Huckleberry:
P. Stone's gang of Chicago, Inc Muslim members were recruited by kadafi, caught and jailed. they were supposed to blow up some airplanes.
It's already happened. They got caught.

So, it is very possible that they will hide behind some stupid American, convincing him or her to do their dirty deeds. It is a logical move on their part.
This is true, some people have obscure an evil motivations (in all religions) but we should remember that these evil minds represent the minority in any religion and we shoulndn't see muslims as enemies or terrorists, but simply as brothers and sisters who have a different culture and view of God some strive to be truly righteous people, most are like the rest of people from any religion who say I'm a (insert your favorite religion here) but they don't perform an steady and constant effort to attain virtue and purity, and a tiny minority are evil people who shield themselves in religion to justify their hatred and violence

what to do?

Prajna is a sanskrit words which means discriminative intelligence, the light that reveals the substance behind the seeming.

Prajna is Insight or Wisdom which is the principal enlightnening faculty, Prajna is not the mere intellect of the scholar, bound by logic reason and memory but an expression of the divine faculty of the Supreme Knower.

Prajna protects the devotee from entrapment by the cunning troops of false reasoning.

Regardless of your religion strive to develop true discriminative intelligence!
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:25 PM
 
Location: San José, CA
3,265 posts, read 5,785,339 times
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I wonder if radical Christian terrorists are patrolling these here boards trolling for other moderate Christians in order to turn them into more radical Christians to be their legislative lackeys, abortion-clinic picketers and bulwark's in the face of quality, American education.

That threatens our lives far more, if you were to ask me. The terrorist working from the inside.
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Old 05-23-2008, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
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The reason why countries are now making new citizens sign an agreement to uphold the law of the land is because some religions do not seem to have a 'live and let live' attitude. Some religions contain laws that go counter to the law of the land.
There was a man who killed his daughter, in Germany I believe, and it was on religious grounds. His religion told him this is what he should do because she 'dishonored' the family in some way. The judge found him innocent because finding him guilty would have been religious persecution.

That was later overturned.

But all religions are not alike. There are areas of nations in which one of these restrictive religions became predominant. They got their members elected to political office. Soon, the other people of the area found they were observing the rulings of a religion that was not theirs. Not all religions believe in freedom or that every religion is a way to god.

This has been such a huge concern that governments are making people sign agreements in order to become citizens.

So, I do not think we can bury our heads in the sand and say 'all religions are worshiping the same god and so they must be OK'.

Avoiding issues do not make them go away.
I am not saying anything about peaceful people of any religion who are not causing trouble and just going about their daily business as do other citizens. I am speaking of those who would push civilization to one side if they but had the chance, and when they see a chance, they take it.

How about cases, like that in Canada, in which a daughter fell in love with a boy from her native country, but her parents did not approve? They ended up shipping her back home and she and the boy, who she had married, were dead. It is not unheard of that disobedient children (girls, mostly) are sent back home to be killed so the parents can not be prosecuted by US(or other countries') law. Of course, the country they are shipped to thinks they are doing the right thing.

So, I think we must use a bit of care in thinking that all religions are the same. They are not.

Look at Florida, which made it illegal for a religion to sacrifice animals. They had a lot of voodoo or some such practitioners. (every now and again the police find trucks of dogs, many household pets, on trucks being shipped around the country for sacrifice). The religious fundamentalists in the US had the law overturned so they could do these sacrifices, saying the law was interfering with religious freedom. My pet is like a family member. I am horrified that people actually worship a god that demands sacrifice.

All religions are not equal.
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Old 05-23-2008, 02:15 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,485,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
The reason why countries are now making new citizens sign an agreement to uphold the law of the land is because some religions do not seem to have a 'live and let live' attitude. Some religions contain laws that go counter to the law of the land.
There was a man who killed his daughter, in Germany I believe, and it was on religious grounds. His religion told him this is what he should do because she 'dishonored' the family in some way. The judge found him innocent because finding him guilty would have been religious persecution.

That was later overturned.

But all religions are not alike. There are areas of nations in which one of these restrictive religions became predominant. They got their members elected to political office. Soon, the other people of the area found they were observing the rulings of a religion that was not theirs. Not all religions believe in freedom or that every religion is a way to god.

This has been such a huge concern that governments are making people sign agreements in order to become citizens.

So, I do not think we can bury our heads in the sand and say 'all religions are worshiping the same god and so they must be OK'.

Avoiding issues do not make them go away.
I am not saying anything about peaceful people of any religion who are not causing trouble and just going about their daily business as do other citizens. I am speaking of those who would push civilization to one side if they but had the chance, and when they see a chance, they take it.

How about cases, like that in Canada, in which a daughter fell in love with a boy from her native country, but her parents did not approve? They ended up shipping her back home and she and the boy, who she had married, were dead. It is not unheard of that disobedient children (girls, mostly) are sent back home to be killed so the parents can not be prosecuted by US(or other countries') law. Of course, the country they are shipped to thinks they are doing the right thing.

So, I think we must use a bit of care in thinking that all religions are the same. They are not.

Look at Florida, which made it illegal for a religion to sacrifice animals. They had a lot of voodoo or some such practitioners. (every now and again the police find trucks of dogs, many household pets, on trucks being shipped around the country for sacrifice). The religious fundamentalists in the US had the law overturned so they could do these sacrifices, saying the law was interfering with religious freedom. My pet is like a family member. I am horrified that people actually worship a god that demands sacrifice.

All religions are not equal.
I believe that all true religions have the same goal but unfortunately we human beings are vulnerable to all sorts of temptations and prone to make mistakes, this causes temporary periods of darkness where religions become just series of dogmas that justify all sorts of horrendous acts like animal sacrifices for example.

I believe that the "sacrifice" that God "demands" is inner sacrifice for example I'm a stubborn smoker even though this bad habit is harmful to my health, so I sacrifice this habit and kill this part of myself and offer it to God to give me strenght not to fall again.

but I don't believe God demands it, he just helps me because he loves me and wants the best for me.

Now returning to the concept of religions, I believe we should defend our religion from Dogma and anything that goes against common sense, we all have souls and if something that my religion says is right causes pain in my soul then it is not and that should be over any authority if God is good and righteousness and I refuse to perform anything with isn't Good or Right (Like killing in the name of God or commiting sacrifice) I'm following God's law which is over any scripture or prophet.

But I refuse the idea of believing that religions are not equal or attacking others for choosing a different religion than mine, in my opinion is better to have enlightening, friendly and respectful dialogues with receptive members of that religion and create a bond of respect and mutual understanding which is much more effective to get us out of the dark ages religiously speaking.

I also try to encourage receptive people I get in touch with to use their God given discrimination instead of blindly following dogmas.

That's why I believe that any person I meet deserves the benefit of the doubt instead of labeling that person and treating him/her according to his/her beliefs, I try to really get to know that person, here in this forum for example I've made great friends of people from all beliefs, religious or not and honestly with my heart I can tell you that I met some really nice and kind muslims in this forum who would never commit a violent act against people who hold different beliefs.

Peace
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Old 05-23-2008, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,796,945 times
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I don't think we should forget that we have a fairly large muslim population in certain parts of the US and the overwhelming majority of them have blended into society and mean no harm to anyone. There have been some incidents as others have mentioned which isn't at all surprising and of course terrorists would like to recruit as many Americans as possible because they have American passports and can come and go as they please like anyone else. I think it's probably much more difficult these days for a foreign terrorist to get into the US although I'm sure it could be done. I don't see why this topic should offend anyone as it apparently offended mikeyyc. It's a perfectly valid question and terrorism is something that we must take seriously. I'm hoping that a new Democratic President and a change in policy could change the dynamics of the muslim versus western nations division. Our own President has created more terrorists by his irresponsible actions than anyone else in the world.
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:32 PM
 
613 posts, read 1,173,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
p stones gang of chicago inc muslim members were recruited by kadafi, caught and jailed. they were supposed to blow up some airplanes.
its already happened. they got caught.
ok ....were the muslim to begin with?
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