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Old 05-25-2008, 09:23 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,288,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
why did you called it honor killing with muslims and murders with the west , they are all murders and they are all killed for the same reasons , and both of them are crimes happened by persons not by court , i cant see any differences


i don't know what happen in each country , but under sharia they must tried for thier crimes , in my country (egypt) they are tried for thier crimes


unfortunatly there are no shariah in egypt nor syria nor palaestine .


quran didn't


i insist in my openion
but the discussion is open , if you think that i'm not honest with you so inform me if i hide somthing about islam from you , you are wellcome to clear your point


i havn't personal knowledge about existence of bombing in malayasia


scholars always say not to theft not to kill not to commit adultery
but there are always some of people not listenning.
who commit honor killing , do it as a revenge for his honor , not as an obdience for God .
thiefs know that thier acts are bad , killer know that also , honor killers know that it's evil deeds also
Elwill, you are right. Murder is murder regardless of where it occurs, and I was wrong to make a distinction between the two.

I would still like to know, since honor killings is not in Quran and is not supported by Sharia ---- why is it prevalent in Islamic culture? From what I have read, the men involved do not receive punishment unless the crime occurs in Europe. Perhaps I am wrong.....perhaps men in Iran or Saudia Arabia face prison and/or capital punishment. Do they?

As always, thank you for your time.
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Old 05-25-2008, 11:00 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,804,653 times
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Originally Posted by camping!
Quote:
No Tricky, Americans do not call bombings of abortion clinics righteous........are you suffering under the delusion that abortion clinics get bombed on a weekly basis?
But these bombings (whether they were done on a weekly basis is irrelevant) are done by religious fanatics who do this in name of their Christian belief.
The thing is that these bombers are deeply religious (whether you would call this Christian or not is also irrelevant) and they justify their actions with quotations from the Bible and / or that they viewed themselves simply as 'instruments of God'.
My point is that you camping! view fanatics with a Christian motivation as just 'fanatics', but a Muslim fanatic suddenly is a terrorist?
Or that every act committed by a Muslim criminal is condoned by their religion.
I mean how can America, a Christian nation, justify their death penalty when Jesus is a pacifist?
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Old 05-25-2008, 11:13 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,288,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by camping!But these bombings (whether they were done on a weekly basis is irrelevant) are done by religious fanatics who do this in name of their Christian belief.
The thing is that these bombers are deeply religious (whether you would call this Christian or not is also irrelevant) and they justify their actions with quotations from the Bible and / or that they viewed themselves simply as 'instruments of God'.
My point is that you camping! view fanatics with a Christian motivation as just 'fanatics', but a Muslim fanatic suddenly is a terrorist?
Or that every act committed by a Muslim criminal is condoned by their religion.
I mean how can America, a Christian nation, justify their death penalty when Jesus is a pacifist?
Seriously, is there a course you can take at a local college about the United States? Maybe even online? Because the US is NOT a Christian nation(and this is NOT the first time this has been brought to your attention). The US is NOT a theocracy. The founding fathers of the US specifically called for the seperation of church and state. And that is what we have ----- there is no intermingling. Oh people try ---- and get refused by the voters, and the supreme court, as well as our local, state, and federal representatives.

The difference between you and me Tricky is that I am willing to learn. I admit I know very little about Islam and Sharia law, and I am not coming from the pov of someone trying (desperately) to prove a preconceived notion. Like you. You honestly don't know jack about the US political system. Open your mind, read, and learn
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Old 05-25-2008, 11:29 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,804,653 times
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Originally Posted by camping!
Quote:
Because the US is NOT a Christian nation(and this is NOT the first time this has been brought to your attention). The US is NOT a theocracy. The founding fathers of the US specifically called for the seperation of church and state.
I don't see a separation of a church and state in America.
I find the American government as secular as the Israeli government.
I predict that for the foreseeable future the US will not have a president who will admit that he (or she) is an atheist.
Not even when he already is elected.

Quote:
The difference between you and me Tricky is that I am willing to learn.
The difference between you and me is that I am at the outside looking in, which means that I am more objective than the general American.
Especially when I can compare European Christians with American Christians.
I guess that you view the American Christian as the template for all Christians while I see 'European' Christians (although generally speaking there is no European Christian only Christians in each European country) as the template for Christianity.
Your American Nationalism and / or politics is just too much interwoven with American Christianity, like the Israeli religion is too much interwoven with their politics.
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Old 05-25-2008, 01:35 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I would still like to know, since honor killings is not in Quran and is not supported by Sharia ---- why is it prevalent in Islamic culture?
but i gave you examples from other cultures and other relegions to proof to you that it isn't islamic cultuer , it's personals cultures

but for your question , why is it prevalent in islamic culture

it's because of media and propoganda which raised against islam , the aims of media is to refute the islam relegion not to refute these kind of crimes
is there in europe this kind of crimes which husband killed her wife when he saw her with another man in his bed ? it's honor crimes also

i think that may be it's hard for you to imagine the importance of chastity of women for her family in some countries because the society you lives in have the freedom to be naked in beachs and in streets and freedom to commit adultery anywhere , anytime and with anyone .i heared that 95% of women commit adultery before marriage in america . ( please don't take my words as an offense )
so you must to think about the situation from other's view for more understanding why they do this . because your cultural isn't normal reference to depend on

if muslims thought by your logic they will say that adultery is christianity culture specially when we have priests commiting it , but you will not find muslims insult any relegion because of deeds of followers

Quote:
From what I have read, the men involved do not receive punishment unless the crime occurs in Europe. Perhaps I am wrong.....perhaps men in Iran or Saudia Arabia face prison and/or capital punishment. Do they?
so , you now have some doubts ?
actually i have no knowledge about that , i didn't read crimes news in saudia before , i just answered you with my knowledge from islamic teaching but i think they are punished , there's no doubts between muslims scholars that it's a crime

Quote:
As always, thank you for your time.
you are wellcome anytime camping , i'm appreciate your listenning
again , i'm sorry if you felt any offenes , i didn't mean to isult anyone , okey
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Old 05-26-2008, 02:53 AM
 
335 posts, read 947,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I have a question about Islam that really has never been answered. There are a lot of threads right now discussing Islam, but I feel that I am most likely not the only American (or non muslim for that matter) who wonders about this......

I have learned that things such as honor killings and political murders are not accepted in Sharia law, rather they are either cultural or political.
However, seeing that honor killings specifically are more common in countries that follow sharia law --- well, how can this be? Wouldn't the fathers/ brothers/male relatives who murdered their daughter/sister/cousin in an honor killing be tried in sharia court? Wouldn't there be an outcry from religious scholars that this practice is an insult to Allah and should be stopped?
And what of the current murderous rampage between Shiites and Sunnis? Killing other muslims because they don't agree exactly as another sect ---- is this OK under Sharia law? Because if it is not, why are these people getting away with it? They are bombing innocent muslims at markets --- it cannot be argued they are killing US soldiers in war. So why no fatwas directed at the leaders of these bombings?
If I understand correctly, Sharia is suppossed to be used to keep a social order. Why is it being used selectively?
The True Religion
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:50 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,288,376 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by camping!I don't see a separation of a church and state in America.
I find the American government as secular as the Israeli government.
I predict that for the foreseeable future the US will not have a president who will admit that he (or she) is an atheist.
Not even when he already is elected.

The difference between you and me is that I am at the outside looking in, which means that I am more objective than the general American.
Especially when I can compare European Christians with American Christians.
I guess that you view the American Christian as the template for all Christians while I see 'European' Christians (although generally speaking there is no European Christian only Christians in each European country) as the template for Christianity.
Your American Nationalism and / or politics is just too much interwoven with American Christianity, like the Israeli religion is too much interwoven with their politics.
Seriously, your ignorance on American politics and society is appalling. Watching HBO and reading the Huffington Post does not an Amercian scholar make. I would advise you to read, research and yes -- visit the US (not just NYC or LA). Then and only then will you be able to say that you are truly objective and informed. Because as it stands right now....you don't know jack.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:08 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,804,653 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by camping!
Quote:
Watching HBO and reading the Huffington Post does not an Amercian scholar make.
I only watch Dutch discussion programs and international documentaries.
I don't watch any HBO or any other American syndicate.
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Old 04-13-2011, 05:27 AM
 
1 posts, read 715 times
Reputation: 10
what is kafer?
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:47 AM
 
439 posts, read 482,296 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by rejaul_2cool View Post
what is kafer?
kafer is the one who doesn't believe in Allah and in his prophets.
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