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Old 05-30-2008, 06:39 PM
 
348 posts, read 476,465 times
Reputation: 57

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianinark View Post
Ah yes, but since I was born and raised on a farm that raised both hogs and cattle, I know that hogs have litters, cows have only one offspring, and rarely,twins. Hogs breed at 8 months, and have from 8 to 12 pigs at a time, and can have up to 27 or more ! Heifers breed at 15 to 27 months.
Quote:
Do the math.
How many hogs could there be in one year's time, and how many cattle, even if all the heifers had twins? Also, there were 7 males of the cattle. It only takes one to breed 7 cows. Therefore there were 6 males that could be used for food and sacrifices in the first year, and only 8 people to eat them. This is not counting all the other clean male animals,( goats, sheep, etc.), and all the creatures of the sea, and the birds (fowl). I can't see 8 people eating that many creatures and depleting the source. Naturally there were children that came after the flood, but how long would it be before they consumed much meat?
I also grew up on a farm and am living on it today. Below is a list of some of the animals that are clean. As you can see, there is quite a selection and it is not an exhaustive one. One can notice that there are animals included in the list that acctually reproduce more rapidly then the hog. The hog is unclean, its meat is proven very unhealthy by science. I have just done the math and have came to the conclusion that other clean animals can reproduce faster then the hog. Your answer failed to give me the full knowledge of God and are only your own impressions. God said to bring aboard 7 each of the clean animals. He didn't say "because they do not produce quickly". Please don't read something into it that is not there. He said he wanted seven of each of the clean animals, I don't know, quite what you are meaning about the male. It states in scripture in two places, "male and his female" and "male and female". Thats all I get out of it.

The hog wasn't fit then to eat, nor is it now.

Land Creatures
Cattle - Beef, Hamburger, Veal.
Sheep - Lamb, Mutton.
Others - Antelope, Buffalo (Bison), Caribou, Deer (Venison), Elk, Gazell, Giraffe, Goat, Hart, Ibex, Moose, Reindeer, Locust.
Water Creatures
Anchovy, Bass, Bluefish, Carp, Cod, Croppie, Flounder, Grouper, Grunt, Haddock, Halibut, Herring, Mackerel, Minnow, Perch, Pickerel, Pike, Rockfish, Salmon, Shad, Smelt, Snapper, Sole, Steelhead, Sunfish, Tarpon, Tuna (Albacore, Bonita, Yellowtail).

Air Creatures
Chickens, Dove, Duck, Goose, Grouse, Guinea Hen, Partridge, Peacock, Pheasant, Pigeon, Songbird, Sparrow, Quail, Turkey.

"How did Jesus feel about Swine"

First, let's review a principle which appeared often in the ministry of our Lord. He was never wasteful. In fact, He commanded the gathering of all the scraps of food following the feeding of the multitudes. On two occasions, Christ specifically ordered that nothing be thrown away. The Scriptures even detail the exact number of baskets of food which were salvaged from the two mountain-side miracle feedings - twelve and seven. (Luke 9:17, Mark 8:20).

With this firm principle in mind concerning our Lord's disposition to conserve every tiny bit of edible food, please consider His experience with the inhabitants of Gadara. Jesus had just cast out devils, and transferred them inside a herd of 2000 swine and drowned them (Matthew 8:30-32, Mark 5:11-14, Luke 8:32-33). Keep in mind there was a famine around this time and people were starving (Acts 11:28). Why did Jesus precipitate the wholesale destruction of that valuable herd of animals? Because Jesus did not consider swine to be suitable for food! It is impossible to believe that our compassionate Saviour would needlessly allow such a waste of resources when the hungry and needy were on every side. We can only conclude that Jesus did not view the animals, which His Father had declared an abomination, as acceptable items of diet.
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Old 05-30-2008, 07:35 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,626,443 times
Reputation: 3759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
I also grew up on a farm and am living on it today. Below is a list of some of the animals that are clean. As you can see, there is quite a selection and it is not an exhaustive one. One can notice that there are animals included in the list that acctually reproduce more rapidly then the hog. The hog is unclean, its meat is proven very unhealthy by science. I have just done the math and have came to the conclusion that other clean animals can reproduce faster then the hog. Your answer failed to give me the full knowledge of God and are only your own impressions. God said to bring aboard 7 each of the clean animals. He didn't say "because they do not produce quickly". Please don't read something into it that is not there. He said he wanted seven of each of the clean animals, I don't know, quite what you are meaning about the male. It states in scripture in two places, "male and his female" and "male and female". Thats all I get out of it.

The hog wasn't fit then to eat, nor is it now.

Land Creatures
Cattle - Beef, Hamburger, Veal.
Sheep - Lamb, Mutton.
Others - Antelope, Buffalo (Bison), Caribou, Deer (Venison), Elk, Gazell, Giraffe, Goat, Hart, Ibex, Moose, Reindeer, Locust.
Water Creatures
Anchovy, Bass, Bluefish, Carp, Cod, Croppie, Flounder, Grouper, Grunt, Haddock, Halibut, Herring, Mackerel, Minnow, Perch, Pickerel, Pike, Rockfish, Salmon, Shad, Smelt, Snapper, Sole, Steelhead, Sunfish, Tarpon, Tuna (Albacore, Bonita, Yellowtail).

Air Creatures
Chickens, Dove, Duck, Goose, Grouse, Guinea Hen, Partridge, Peacock, Pheasant, Pigeon, Songbird, Sparrow, Quail, Turkey.

"How did Jesus feel about Swine"

First, let's review a principle which appeared often in the ministry of our Lord. He was never wasteful. In fact, He commanded the gathering of all the scraps of food following the feeding of the multitudes. On two occasions, Christ specifically ordered that nothing be thrown away. The Scriptures even detail the exact number of baskets of food which were salvaged from the two mountain-side miracle feedings - twelve and seven. (Luke 9:17, Mark 8:20).

With this firm principle in mind concerning our Lord's disposition to conserve every tiny bit of edible food, please consider His experience with the inhabitants of Gadara. Jesus had just cast out devils, and transferred them inside a herd of 2000 swine and drowned them (Matthew 8:30-32, Mark 5:11-14, Luke 8:32-33). Keep in mind there was a famine around this time and people were starving (Acts 11:28). Why did Jesus precipitate the wholesale destruction of that valuable herd of animals? Because Jesus did not consider swine to be suitable for food! It is impossible to believe that our compassionate Saviour would needlessly allow such a waste of resources when the hungry and needy were on every side. We can only conclude that Jesus did not view the animals, which His Father had declared an abomination, as acceptable items of diet.

Excuse me! You are the one who is reading something into what I said that wasn't there! I was merely pointing out that the occupants of Noah's ark would not have eaten up all the pigs ( if they ate pigs) due to their reproduction.
I did not need your lenghthy discourse on your theories of the uncleanlyness of hogs et al...

By the way, Jesus apparently hated dogs. There is not one good thing said about dogs in the entire bible! So why do most men adore dogs?

I do not appreciate your talking down to me like I were some sort of nit wit!
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Old 05-30-2008, 08:39 PM
 
348 posts, read 476,465 times
Reputation: 57
Default Sorry

Marianinark

I misunderstood you. My sincere apology, Sorry. I didn't think anything bad about you.

Hiram
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:01 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,626,443 times
Reputation: 3759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
Marianinark

I misunderstood you. My sincere apology, Sorry. I didn't think anything bad about you.

Hiram
I, too,am sorry that I spouted off. I shouldn't post when I am tired. It has been a long and tiring week.
Also, I should have quoted the particular verse that I was refering to.

Thank you for your patience.
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Old 05-31-2008, 09:56 AM
 
348 posts, read 476,465 times
Reputation: 57
No problem, I'm happy we are friends!
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:08 PM
 
Location: England
1,171 posts, read 2,240,853 times
Reputation: 1007
Bacon sandwichesw are lovely. BUT research has shown BACON is really bad for the heart! So there you are....a hog a day will blow you away.

I could be a vegetarian easily. The only meat I regularly (once a week) eat is chicken.

Red meat is bad for you full stop.

Soya Replacement is healthier.
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:58 PM
 
Location: morocco
69 posts, read 137,894 times
Reputation: 27
if you want to know more why islam Forbids Pork please visit this website
Why Islam Forbids Pork? By Rashid Shamsi
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
4,349 posts, read 6,618,100 times
Reputation: 7266
I think the early civilizations had experiences with several of the disease which Pork can carry. This is why you see restrictions in several faiths on pork. As time has passed these are less relevant than feeding the world population. I to agree on the high fat issue in pork, but all things within limits is my view on the issue with foods.
The post on birth rates seems great for 2000 years ago and maybe 50 years ago, but in today's industrialized livestock production (which I do not like) the process of birth to market has been trimmed to just over half a year for swine. Kills rates in one NC swine process plant are over 30,000 hogs per day, and last year farmers were pushing them to keep up with animal production. The same is true of chickens and turkeys. Fish and shrimp seem to be the next on the industrialization planning board.
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:32 AM
 
348 posts, read 476,465 times
Reputation: 57
Default Grass fed

Quote:
Originally Posted by jennaflorrie View Post
Bacon sandwichesw are lovely. BUT research has shown BACON is really bad for the heart! So there you are....a hog a day will blow you away.

I could be a vegetarian easily. The only meat I regularly (once a week) eat is chicken.

Red meat is bad for you full stop.

Soya Replacement is healthier.

jennaflorrie I am living on a farm here and I have studied a lot about grain and grass fed beef, chickens and the eggs that they lay. The way our foods are processed are so unhealthy. Great amounts of grain are given to our animals. They might still be using dead animals in the protein that is fed to them masked under the term "urea". Whether that is still done I do not know. Anyway, all beef in the store is produced in feedlots, and are fed a heavy grain diet which gives us a completely unbalanced ratio of Omega fatty acids, thus making the product very unhealthy. If you can get the beef or chicken from a farm that is "not" feeding grain at all, and is on nice grass and no antibiotics, growth hormones, then you would have a very healthy food. This is where meat gets a bad rap, whether it be chicken or beef. Also the meat is very acidic from being grain fed, and most people in Canada and USA have acidic bodies which is also unhealthy.

Soy has been so genetically "changed" it is hardly a food any more. Also, it is fed to cattle in large amounts. Please have a look at the articles I have provided for you. I had some very good links at one time, but I just got these off the internet, but I think they will suffice.


Myths and Truths About Soy (http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtsoy.html - broken link)

Health Benefits of All Natural 100% Grass Fed Beef


Acidosis! Is Your Body Acidic? by Bob Black Health by Drinking Water
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:42 AM
 
Location: SWFL
22,850 posts, read 19,286,589 times
Reputation: 21216
Quite right. Islam is not the only religion that forbids eating of pork. The Bible also lists shellfish to be "unclean". Shellfish, as well as cloven hoofed animals are the worlds vacuum cleaners and not fit for consumption. I really believe the Bible was put on this earth as "the owner's guide" to happy and healthful living. Being brought up Gentile though, stopping eating pork is something I have not been able to accomplish, shame on me. Shellfish, no problem, never liked it.
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