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Old 06-16-2008, 10:11 AM
 
244 posts, read 365,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
The service men are telling people about Christ because it is what Jesus asks us to do, and it is because it is the desire of the soldiers hearts.
Jesus did not say to proselytize at all times regardless of the laws and constitutional principles of the country in which you live. If a soldier did feel she had to proselytize to Iraquis, she could do so in accordance with those laws and principles. That this simple fact fails to occur to you says much more about your ego than about Jesus' teachings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34
Some how you got this idea that Christians must be second class citizens because they where a uniform.
No, I got the idea that Christians should be treated like anyone else. No one gets to proselytize her religion while acting as a representative of the government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34
There is no tortured interpretation here, we as Christian have a right to speak of our God.
You have the right to speak of your God when acting as private individuals. You do not have, and have never had, the right to proselytize when acting as representative of the US government. Anyone who doesn't like that shouldn't become US government representatives.
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Old 06-16-2008, 03:37 PM
 
Location: England
1,171 posts, read 2,242,293 times
Reputation: 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
You are mistaken on so many levels...America was not built of fundamental Christianity. How could it when fundamental Christianity didn't exist until the late 1800s? America was and hopefully still is a secular nation.

In my opinion all fundamentalists, whatever religion are intolerant...Your views on Muslims confirms Fundamental Christian intolerance, but perhaps it is just you
The people who came over to America from Britian were Quakers. Abraham Lincoln was a born again christian. Look at the original constitution. They used to pray in schools, teach christianity in schools then it was thrown out and secularism was brought in.

My view on Muslims are from what I see, hear, read and research.

I think if you think Muslims are no threat to this countries liberty then you are living in cuckoo land. I don't know what your line of work is, but perhaps you should go over to Iran - and live the life of the locals. Maybe you will then appreciate this once Christian Country a little more.
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,884 posts, read 31,776,624 times
Reputation: 12629
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennaflorrie View Post
The people who came over to America from Britian were Quakers. Abraham Lincoln was a born again christian. Look at the original constitution. They used to pray in schools, teach christianity in schools then it was thrown out and secularism was brought in.

My view on Muslims are from what I see, hear, read and research.

I think if you think Muslims are no threat to this countries liberty then you are living in cuckoo land. I don't know what your line of work is, but perhaps you should go over to Iran - and live the life of the locals. Maybe you will then appreciate this once Christian Country a little more.
Still making statements not based on fact?

Lincoln never joined a church nor ever made a clear profession of standard Christian beliefs... Lincoln's friend Jesse Fell [suggested that Lincoln's views on Christian theology] were not orthodox... It is probable that Lincoln was turned against organized Christianity by his experiences as a young man in New Salem, Illinois, where excessive emotion and bitter sectarian quarrels marked yearly camp meetings and the ministry of traveling preachers. Yet although Lincoln was not a church member, he did ponder the eternal significance of his own circumstances...

Your view on Muslims excludes the vast majority of them who are moderates, not fundamentalists. Moderate Muslims are not a threat to anyone.

If Christianity is allowed to be taught in schools, then all other faiths should also be taught, including Islam. I do not see how that is possible, as there are too many different faiths including many different sects of Christians.

People in Iran are living the life we would be living here should America become a fundamentalist Christian state. The rules may be a bit different, but the results would be the same.
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Old 06-16-2008, 07:23 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 4,938,508 times
Reputation: 1307
it really is as simple as:

marine on duty.

marine in uniform.

marine holding gun.

marine forces (note the word force; it is important) iraqis to take religious emblem.

marine needs to wait until he is not on duty, wearing a uniform (representing a secular, religiously nonbiased entity), and holding a loaded weapon before he can preach to the masses out of the 'love' of his heart.

when i enlisted in the usmc, i made a commitment that i would serve my country and obey its rules. one of those rules is that the military, and the government that it protects, is not meant to be a religious entity. once an authority from that entity uses his position to enforce religious regulations, it becomes a religious entity.

and a marine with a gun, guarding and monitoring an ecp, is definitely an authority figure. i doubt that there is any logical way that you can look at a man that gets to wield a weapon and tell you when and where to go, and how to do it, as anything but an authority figure.

so, the question is, should an authority figure, currently in an official duty, be promoting his religion? let's look at it this way: you get pulled over for speeding and the officer tells you that he hasn't figured out whether or not he's going to give you a ticket yet. then proceeds to preach to you about the truths of scientology and to ask you what your opinion is about the subject. is that very professional? is that very fair? granted, you can still tell him he's an idiot and that you think he's going to hell, but then you have to go to the trouble of convincing a judge in court (because you just bought yourself a ticket; but way to uphold your beliefs!) that you were put in an unlawful situation, and that the officer was out of line.

i think we can both agree that an officer that did that would be fair game for some sort of punishment, and while i realize that no analogy holds true at every aspect, i am pretty confident that our marine friend is in pretty much the same boat.

aaron out.
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,835,555 times
Reputation: 11318
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennaflorrie View Post
I just get angry at the way we all hold ourselves responsible, when in fact, the Muslims and their total abhorhance of Christianity and America is the real issue and then you have people on here seeming to agree with them. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Aim at the real enemy. Christianity is not intolerant - see the real root of intolerance.
I see christianity as very intolerant and lacking respect of others.
We are in Iraq in an unprovoked war based on lies.
How would you feel if the US were occupied and the muslim oppressors/occupiers were preaching at you and handing you muslim coins?

The real root of intolerance in christianity is its refusal to accept that others are not interested in their religion. What's the problem with leaving the rest of the world alone?
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,835,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennaflorrie View Post
These guys weren't christians! Christians would not torture other people. they were trying to get them to say they love Jesus only because they knew how disgusting that would be to them.
If they say they're xian, they are.
You don't get to decide that only people who act as you would like them to are xian.
You can't include and exclude on your personal beliefs.
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,835,555 times
Reputation: 11318
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennaflorrie View Post
I think if you think Muslims are no threat to this countries liberty then you are living in cuckoo land. I don't know what your line of work is, but perhaps you should go over to Iran - and live the life of the locals. Maybe you will then appreciate this once Christian Country a little more.
Why do you keep telling people who disagree with you to move to Iran?
This is the kind of xianity that really scares me.
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:50 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,891,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Well I think your bible, at least the way you interpret it is foolish, wrong and murderous.
The preaching of the cross to them that perish is foolishness, but to we that are alive it is the power of God. That statement was made 2,000 years ago, yet it was true then, and is true today. Without Christ in your life, there is no hope for the future.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:18 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,891,233 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirbryn View Post
Jesus did not say to proselytize at all times regardless of the laws and constitutional principles of the country in which you live. If a soldier did feel she had to proselytize to Iraquis, she could do so in accordance with those laws and principles. That this simple fact fails to occur to you says much more about your ego than about Jesus' teachings.



No, I got the idea that Christians should be treated like anyone else. No one gets to proselytize her religion while acting as a representative of the government.



You have the right to speak of your God when acting as private individuals. You do not have, and have never had, the right to proselytize when acting as representative of the US government. Anyone who doesn't like that shouldn't become US government representatives.
The laws of America come second to the Laws of God, and why do you think so many of the Biblical men of the Bible were put to death?
I will tell you. They were put to death because they did not follow the laws of the land. They did not bow down to govenments, or their enemies, nor were they silent. The religious leaders told Jesus that they should keep quiet, and Jesus told them if His people kept silent the very rocks would cry out. Jesus tells us to go into all the world and preach the Gospel, and that is what Christians will continually do. I have a right to speak of my God any time I feel like it, and I will do so until my heart stops beating. Jesus spoke the truth, and John the Baptist spoke the truth, and they killed both of them because of that truth. Do you believe the mans law is greater than Gods commands? Jesus did not believe that, and that is why He did not submit to the leading religious authorities. It is not the American government that is in charge, it is Jesus Christ. Anytime you put human government ahead of the authority of God, your going to have a problem.
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Old 06-16-2008, 10:32 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,891,233 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
I see christianity as very intolerant and lacking respect of others.
We are in Iraq in an unprovoked war based on lies.
How would you feel if the US were occupied and the muslim oppressors/occupiers were preaching at you and handing you muslim coins?

The real root of intolerance in christianity is its refusal to accept that others are not interested in their religion. What's the problem with leaving the rest of the world alone?
The problem is when Christians leave the rest of the world alone you are saying it's ok for those people to die and go to hell. Christians know that the only way to heaven is by accepting Gods sacrifice for sin. That came to us by the person of Jesus Christ. Faith in Christ is not just a game to real Christian. Life and death hangs in the balance. All the men of the Bible knew that the world was not interested in their religion, yet Jesus did not say forget about them. Jesus did say, go into all the world and preach the Gospel.
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