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Old 06-22-2008, 11:31 AM
 
1,487 posts, read 2,054,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Unless he held a Gun to my head and told me to accept Allah, I would believe he was just sharing his religious views with me. That's what I would believe.

If he was part of a force occupying you country he may not have a gun to your head but he'd be armed and I think that might just make you see the picture a bit differently especially if rumors were flying, as they are in Iraq, that many of his comrades had mistreated or even killed some of your countrymen.
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Old 06-22-2008, 11:37 AM
 
Location: England
1,171 posts, read 2,241,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
If he was part of a force occupying you country he may not have a gun to your head but he'd be armed and I think that might just make you see the picture a bit differently especially if rumors were flying, as they are in Iraq, that many of his comrades had mistreated or even killed some of your countrymen.

No one treats the Iraq people worse than their own previous leaders and their fellow countrymen. There is constant in-fighting amongst the Iraq people, with different fractions of Islam blowing up parts of the cities where the other fractions live. One of the biggest troubles for the troops in Iraq, is controlling this in-fighting. They are caught up in the middle of the Iraq people fighting.

There is a huge struggle for power going on in Iraq. And it's easy to blame the Marines for talking about Jesus with someone (if they asked), for the mindset of these Iraq people. There would be fighting in Iraq even if the Americans left. There would probably be a blood bath really, these people are viscious to their own people.
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Old 06-22-2008, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,822,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennaflorrie View Post
No one treats the Iraq people worse than their own previous leaders and their fellow countrymen. There is constant in-fighting amongst the Iraq people, with different fractions of Islam blowing up parts of the cities where the other fractions live. One of the biggest troubles for the troops in Iraq, is controlling this in-fighting. They are caught up in the middle of the Iraq people fighting.

There is a huge struggle for power going on in Iraq. And it's easy to blame the Marines for talking about Jesus with someone (if they asked), for the mindset of these Iraq people. There would be fighting in Iraq even if the Americans left. There would probably be a blood bath really, these people are viscious to their own people.
You're justifying our bad behavior on someone else's behavior.
Why is it your business what a sovereign nation does.
Would you welcome people into the US to take care of any problems that the US might have? There's constant in-fighting in the US as well. After all, they mean us well, and Halliburton would make some more money.
You have to look at our nation's behavior independent of any one else's behavior. What you're doing is comparing the US to Iraq and Iran.
Really, is that what you want.
The Iraqi's want the US to leave NOW.
We created the conditions to make the country worse than it was and to become ultra religious.
Proud of that?

Do not talk of other people being vicious. The US treats people just as viciously, both citizenry and people we've kidnapped an sent to torture zones in other countries.

USATODAY.com - Poll: Iraqis out of patience
Only a third of the Iraqi people now believe that the American-led occupation of their country is doing more good than harm (2004)

Most Iraqis Favor Immediate U.S. Pullout, Polls Show - washingtonpost.com
A strong majority of Iraqis want U.S.-led military forces to immediately withdraw from the country, saying their swift departure would make Iraq more secure and decrease sectarian violence, according to new polls by the State Department and independent researchers. (2006)

Majority of Iraqi Lawmakers Now Reject Occupation | War on Iraq | AlterNet
More than half of the members of Iraq's parliament rejected for the first time on Tuesday the continuing occupation of their country. The U.S. media ignored the story. (2007)

t r u t h o u t | Iraq Lawmakers Want US Forces Out as Part of Deal
A majority of the Iraqi parliament has written to Congress rejecting a long-term security deal with Washington if it is not linked to a requirement that U.S. forces leave, a U.S. lawmaker said on Wednesday. (2008, June)
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Old 06-22-2008, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,794,408 times
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jennaflorrie wrote:
Quote:
There is a huge struggle for power going on in Iraq. And it's easy to blame the Marines for talking about Jesus with someone (if they asked), for the mindset of these Iraq people. There would be fighting in Iraq even if the Americans left. There would probably be a blood bath really, these people are viscious to their own people.
Alot of what you say is true but it's also true that we caused a nation that had never attacked us and was relatively peaceful at the time of our invasion to descend into a state of civil war. Trying to convert Iraqi citizens into the religion of the occupiers is like putting gasoline on a fire. This is a muslim nation, they have no Christian traditions and no interest in being like the United States. Why would anyone engage in behavior that puts people's lives at risk?
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Old 06-22-2008, 06:12 PM
 
Location: England
1,171 posts, read 2,241,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
jennaflorrie wrote:

Alot of what you say is true but it's also true that we caused a nation that had never attacked us and was relatively peaceful at the time of our invasion to descend into a state of civil war. Trying to convert Iraqi citizens into the religion of the occupiers is like putting gasoline on a fire. This is a muslim nation, they have no Christian traditions and no interest in being like the United States. Why would anyone engage in behavior that puts people's lives at risk?

Why we went in - the full reasons - we will probably never know completely. There is a lot of info kept quiet. Need to know only.
Saddam Hussein was only a small part of it, oil - maybe figured in it too.

At first, the Iraqis were thrilled to be liberated from dictatorship - then eveyone started a free for all - who would take Saddams Crown?

The people have little choices in their education in their freedom of religion. They know nothing about Jesus. Bibles are forbidden. The Marines who did talk about Jesus were probably responding to genuine questions that the Iraqis asked. The sad thing is - this is not permitted. Women have been stoned to death for simply TALKING to an American soldier.

The Iraqis are in bondage still - not to Saddam any more, but they are in a spiritual bondage, a moral bondage, a bondage that represses the freedoms we take for granted here. Freedom to debate, to speak, to differ in our opinions. There is a darkness across the lands of Islam that binds these people.

America and the western world is not perfect. But we must not underestimate the wonders of the freedoms we do possess. We are free to be Jews, Muslims, Christians, Witches......whatever.....and this is right. To have this freedom. It is what God intended. For us to freely choose what we want for our lives, and what we believe.
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Old 06-22-2008, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
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jennaflorrie wrote:
Quote:
America and the western world is not perfect. But we must not underestimate the wonders of the freedoms we do possess. We are free to be Jews, Muslims, Christians, Witches......whatever.....and this is right. To have this freedom. It is what God intended. For us to freely choose what we want for our lives, and what we believe.
I completely agree that the world of islam in many parts of the world is an oppressive system and I also feel lucky to live in a society in which you can believe whatever you want, but we need to understand that they feel just as strongly about their religion as any American does. I also agree with you when you say that the Iraqis are still in bondage but I believe it's a self imposed bondage that's been instilled into them from one generation to the next. I don't think the answer is to replace their religion with another religion, I think the problem is religion itself. Rational thought and the recognition that every life is of equal importance would be a great improvement over any religious motivation that divides mankind into those who are saved versus those who must be punished based on what god they believe in.
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:01 PM
 
Location: England
1,171 posts, read 2,241,272 times
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Montana Guy - you too are in bondage. Spritual bondage is about being in the darkness and not being in the light. Yes, you have the choice to choose - but can you see which is the right choice? You see it all as Religion and religion being the problem. The problem is the darkness and the bondage in each man's heart. But in Christ Jesus there is freedom. It is that ultimate freedom that the marines - God bless them - were trying to show these Iraqis.
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:35 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,286,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennaflorrie View Post
Montana Guy - you too are in bondage. Spritual bondage is about being in the darkness and not being in the light. Yes, you have the choice to choose - but can you see which is the right choice? You see it all as Religion and religion being the problem. The problem is the darkness and the bondage in each man's heart. But in Christ Jesus there is freedom. It is that ultimate freedom that the marines - God bless them - were trying to show these Iraqis.
Holy hell woman! Haven't you read anything in this thread?!
Let me make it very simple for you.
Iraq is not DuBuque Iowa. An armed (this means with a loaded automatic weopon) military personal of an occupying army is not a polite young man wearing an oxford shirt and chinos.
And finally -- and really for this exact topic at hand most importantly -- the prosylitzing marine is not being paid by the secular government of the United States of America to save Iraqi souls with the message of Jesus Christ (a message the Iraqis know of and have already rejected btw). That marine is there to control an angry and unpredictable poplace and to watch his fellow marines backs. This he cannot do if he is busy putting Christ coins in Iraqis pockets.

Now,do you understand?
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:37 PM
 
Location: England
1,171 posts, read 2,241,272 times
Reputation: 1007
I understand - clearly. Yes, I got a bit off the track with this one. But, ultimately - coin or no coin - the Iraqis will find any excuse to stone someone to death if they as much as stand any where near a marine. So don't be soooooo dramatic......
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:43 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,286,804 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennaflorrie View Post
I understand - clearly. Yes, I got a bit off the track with this one. But, ultimately - coin or no coin - the Iraqis will find any excuse to stone someone to death if they as much as stand any where near a marine. So don't be soooooo dramatic......
Then take your head out {ahem}.....kindly look logically at a situation and not blindly excuse any idiot behavior of any idiot because he calls himself a christian.
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