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Old 05-30-2008, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Earth
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I didn't say it was the majority, but one is too many.
These people need to leave the military, they have mental defects.
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Old 06-01-2008, 04:13 AM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
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[quote=stycotl;3938449]i am sure that there are a few people out there that fit this description, but i sincerely doubt that this is the majority.[/quote

Chielgril has a good point, and I see and agree it is not the majority, but it only takes a few nuts to spin thing out of control. I think in the US you can see the problems springing up everywhere in this election year. Religious groups preaching HATE, and members sitting and agreeing until it hit the news plasters it across the front page. In the Middle East entire divisions of Islam are looking for a way to instigate a religious war. There are no shortage of the nuts, and no shortage of the brainless followers. It spells problems at every turn, and to let this issue slip under the rug is paramount to saying it is OK.
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Old 06-01-2008, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Toronto; Canada
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America wishes to alter the concept of law in Iraq (in particular) to the plutochratic principled property determined for values of deeds in abstract contesting suits. Instead, you've got to be brainless to support the unconverted of their various sects in working worth. Egypt was once considered secularistic in its democratic dreams; now gold prices are making their love of Isalm turn to oligarchy. Yup, but I'm converted from theocracy.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:12 AM
 
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Default marines becoming muslims in iraq

if ever it is true that many american marines are embracing Islam in Iraq, then it is their choice. i think that every person- marine or not - is responsible for himself as well as his choices and decisions in his life. if by chance he decides to join the ranks of those people who call themselves muslims and learn and practice his newfound religion , then i believe it is his right and we having to do about him except that we must respect his choices.

we always cry for freedom and one of reasons why the americans are in iraq is because of freedom. i think freedom is a very broad term and i believe that it includes the right to choose one's religion and practice the same.

if those marines in iraq choose to be muslims, i don't see any reason why other people would go panic, judge them and demand explanations from them. we ourselves don't want to be questioned and treated in the same manner so why don't we let other people be?
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Old 06-02-2008, 09:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabee View Post
If you cant see the point then you not able to reason.
Was your point that converting muslims to christianity was similiar to the American revolution? That is not a point, that is an incorrect coreleation. The American revolution was not about converting anybody to anything, it was about freedom from tyranny, no taxation without representation etc. etc.... Now, if you wanted to say this was like the crusades, that may be a better correalation. But remember how that turned out?
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Old 06-02-2008, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
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Hmmm...

I think that has been part of the problem with this war from the very start. It was something I feared prior to us ever invading Iraq and it was one of the reasons that I was against it from the start.

A bit of history on the subject, most of this I would imagine is probably well known to most of the people on here:

During the conflict between Russia and Afghanistan in the 1980's we were in the midst of the Cold War. It was our objective to try and overthrow the pungent aroma of Communism the world over. Because Russia was such a military superpower, we feared very much of entering a war with them. And, I imagine, on some level, they did not want the same. So, when Russia invaded Afghanistan, it was the perfect opportunity for us to support the Afghans and simultaneously get a taste of some Russian blood ourselves. Freedom fighters from all over the Middle East joined the Afghans and a number of them became jihadists. We supported them, supplied them weapons, and through and through did our best behind the scenes to defeat the scourge of Communism. One of the people whom we assisted in this fight was a young man named Osama Bin Laden. He was thankful for our help and things were on the "up and up".

Fast forward to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in the early 1990's just prior to the fall of Communism in Russia. By this time, Osama had built quite a following and had the arrogant confidence that he and his army of freedom fighters could handle any incursion in the Middle East. Because Kuwait borders Saudi Arabia just to the North, Osama's homeland was in danger. He offered the assistance of his freedom fighting army to help defend against the imposters (Iraq). Saudi Arabia declined this offer and turned to America instead. This absolutely infuriated Osama as, according to him and many Muslims, no foreign fighter should enter the sovereign holy land. This, to him, was a Muslim war, and should be fought as such. Because America was a Christian nation, he took it to another level. One beyond personal, to that of the spiritual.

In typical American fashion, and probably predicted by Osama, we did not just fend off the Iraqi's but we built up bases in Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, and other parts of the Middle East. This infuriated him even further and in 1993 he sent one of his men to blow up the World Trade Center. We probably all remember the day that Ramsey Youssif set off that bomb. Although we can be thankful that many more lives were not lost, it was still a strike against us on American soil and we should have had our eyes and ears peeled from that point on.

Through a string of further terrorist attacks on or against Americans both at home and abroad (U.S. embassies in Africa, the bombing of the U.S.S Cole, etc..) it became quite evident that we were amidst the beginning stages of a religious war - or so it seemed from Osama's perspective. To us, they were just a bunch of "crazy Muslims". But, we still persisted in keeping our bases alive and strong in the Middle East and I'm sure this was certainly a continual slap in the face for Bin Laden.

It all came to a head, as we all know, on September 11, 2001 when the inevitable happened. This had been brewing for a long time and although we should have known it was coming, it seems that we were all taken by surprise. The punch that gave us perhaps the largest black eye in all of our history, perhaps even more than the bombing of Pearl Harbor, set the lumbering motions of what was going to be a huge military event.

I was in the military at that time. I remember feeling like things went completely out of control. For nearly a month, it seems, we all sat and watched the news and tried to figure out what was going on. I wasn't privvy to anything special at that point in time, but it was almost as if you could feel the giant war machine creaking and coming alive. This was going to be big. Really big and it was only a matter of time.

And so it happened. Roughly a month later, we entered Afghanistan. We bombed and strafed and we were determined to erradicate this bastion of Islamic terrorism and, more importantly, the figurehead and mastermind behind the giver of our nation's black eye. We blasted them from the Stone Age to the last Ice Age and yet the perserverence was and still is thickly ingrained in their minds. Our presence, although welcomed by the Afghanis, was not entirely welcome throughout the Middle East. Yet, the rest of the countries in the Middle East proceeded with caution. This WAS America, and this was a rabidly and morosely pissed off America. Just let them fly their operations in our countries and stay out of their way.

With that in mind, and as we moved our cause throughout the Middle East, it doesn't strike me as odd that many of the people felt the very same way that Osama Bin Laden did in the early 1990's when Saudi Arabia invited us over for dinner and we set up a tent in their backyard. Surely, this nation full of Christians was here to stay and that was entirely against anything they believed in both personal and religious. Everyone throughout the entire world was watching us to see what we were going to do at that point.

Sadly, and much to my dismay, we decided to persist even further. We had another threat in the Middle East. Or, at least, so we were told. We all bought it. We failed to really think objectively about what the consequences of going to Iraq would be. With the tensions as high as they were, with the Muslims viewing this as a holy war, and with us seen as religious "invaders" it made me think prior to us entering Iraq that this would only have one outcome. This was going to turn ugly. Really quickly and really fast.

But, after the result of several "confirming" reports of WMD's, terrorist harborment, and other propagandic techniques used by my favorite Presidential administration we ended up going to Iraq. We all know what has transpired since then.

It leaves no doubt in my mind that there will be those of the Muslim faith who genuflect upon some of the people and soldiers in this country as those who are somehow "tainted". Seeing the dead bodies of your brothers and sisters, the flag-draped coffins coming home, and the realization of your own personal faith in the Christian God, it must be awfully hard not to try and convince those Muslims you do come in contact with that they are indeed wrong somehow. But, it is too late for that, and their religion is far too ingrained within their culture for it to be of any benefit. So, what we are left with are nineteen and twenty year old men who take it upon themselves to leave the impression on Iraqis that we really don't want to have happen.

Abu-Ghraib, the marine throwing the puppy off the cliff, the shooting of the Koran, and now the coins being passed out. These are not going to be things that bode well for the image of us that is already tainted in the eyes of those in the Middle East. We have fallen hook, line, and sinker for every one of Bin Laden's traps and we continue to do so today. We should all be ashamed at those who try to influence other cultures with our own brand. This isn't and shouldn't be about religion on our behalf. If we turn it into that, it's going to get worse. Yet, the incidences at hand are giving us a mighty awful image. It's not about passing coins out with Christian scriptures on them. It's about the dominant and possessing image that we Americans are giving those in the world. And, yet, because the coins did have Christian scriptures, and this is a predominantly Christian America, it would probably only be taken one way by those who see us as imperialistic avengers and invaders.

It is only going to be taken as a Holy War and it will validate their reasoning behind feeling such as they do. We really need to sit and think about what it is we are trying to accomplish over there and how it should be presented to the people not only in Iraq, but in the Middle East. Are we really giving the impression of spreading democracy throughout that part of the world? Or, does it seem like there is something else? Because, as much as I'd love to see terrorism defeated, I'm also not so sure that we are guilt-free in all of this. Perhaps our largest black eye was not 9-11 but realizing that we were duped into something that has seemingly turned into a religious war and now we're stuck....
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Old 06-02-2008, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Troop, thank you for your analysis. Your points are clear and unarguable (though they will probably be argued).
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Old 06-03-2008, 12:00 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,887,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cncracer View Post
This is twice I have seen the press link the Iraq to a religious war. I think if the report is true we need to end it today and take legal action on the people passing out the coins. It is bad enough to fight over terrorism, chemical warfare, and a world of other supposed issues, but never religion!
In today's world with nuclear weapons, dirty bombs, biological warfare, and terrorism in general, nobody but a fool or someone wanting to end humanity would allow something spiral into a war on religion.
Maybe we should just ban free speech all together. Then we can start acting like the Islamic Nations. And instead of passing out coins, we will just kill the people who do not continue to believe in Islam.
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Old 06-03-2008, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Toronto; Canada
123 posts, read 281,609 times
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Campbell 32, you believe too much for what I said for the reason of 'indoctrination WAYS' for the regard of how Allah could and should exist for the conversion of one religious way in a livable lovelife to another. Interesting now; how to regard hence the monitered LIFE of the individual being part of the state.

I mean even in America they can and should moniter your whereabouts.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:57 AM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
4,349 posts, read 6,618,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Maybe we should just ban free speech all together. Then we can start acting like the Islamic Nations. And instead of passing out coins, we will just kill the people who do not continue to believe in Islam.
My hope was to band all religions and place them in the history books with other mythologies and poor choices on how to advance the species. Lot to hope for, but if the religious donít kill us off first I think we will see it come to past.
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