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Old 06-09-2009, 12:41 PM
 
4,669 posts, read 4,089,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
also.. Kdbrich.. haven't forgotten about you. Still waiting on the list of muslim governments and their neighborly policies..

include any historical context if you like too.

baited anticipation with I do wait.

Name a muslim country.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:47 PM
 
16 posts, read 8,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Universe View Post
About 10% of the Muslims believe in this.The others don't.(Atually it's a sin for them)

Lying is not a sin for muslims.

Even allah proclaims himself to be a liar. Allah calls himself "the best of deceivers" in verse 3:54.

A deceiver is a liar.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:50 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,573,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
. I have also said (proved actually) that muslims who denounce terrorism are contradicting the teachings of their god and their prophet.
I am sorry, I missed this proof. Can you tell me the post number so I can go directly back to it?
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:01 PM
 
16 posts, read 8,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
I am sorry, I missed this proof. Can you tell me the post number so I can go directly back to it?
You can go back and read what I have said. But for your benefit, I will give you another example.

Not only was it the teaching of the prophet to be a rapist, he authorized and/or participated in rape himself.

It's easy to demonstrate from islamic sources themselves that the prophet of islam was a thief, pedophile, rapist, and murderer.

Verse 4:24, and the related Tafsirs (you can check the Tafsir of Al Jalalayn) are very clear. Sex with captive women is allowed.

I don't know what sort of politically correct spin you would try to give that, but I would characterize sex with a woman who is being held captive against her will as being rape.

Of course muslims like to explain away the filth in their religious literature by mentioning the "historical context", but it is the "historical context" of that verse is documented in their hadith and is what amounts to be the most damning evidence of all.

It is documented in the Sahih (sahih means "genuine", or "authentic") Muslim hadith, book 8, number 3432............quote:

"Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah her pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hanain Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace te upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end)."

Right hand possession are "captives", as explained in the Tafsir of Al Jalalayn.

Note that "he sent an army", which means that the prophet was the aggressor.

And that isn't all.There's more. Sahih Muslim Book 8.number 3371...............quote:

"Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born."


So there you have it. We can see several things:
(1) The prophet and his men wanted "ransom", meaning that the prophet and his men were engaged in human trafficking.
(2) The prophet told his men to go have their way with those captive women, which means he and his pimp allah authorized rape.
(3) It is clear from the hadith that Mohammed and his men were attacking somebody else's territory (expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq), which means that the prophet of islam was the aggressor.

There is your "historical context" for Verse 4:24.

And.................by the way..........these are islamic sources (hadith and tafsir), not my sources. I didn't write that stuff.

Draw your own conclusions.
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:08 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,205,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
Most of my Christian acquaintances are Arabic speaking Christians. They actually take offense at the suggestion that their god and the Islamic god are the same. To them, the islamic god is satan.
I bet they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
Based on what I can see from the Koran, I would agree.
Its interesting to me that you said earlier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
I am not Christian, so I am not sure what Jesus said.
But I'm guessing you aren't muslim either.. yet you seem to know a whole bunch about Islam.. fascinating..

Maybe you should study up on both.. because again my point is you can't take a video.. an label an entire faith. .

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
And read what I said. I am talking about the teachings. I challenged you to quote Jesus commanding the death penalty for apostates. You have not done so....So yes, you really are ducking it.
Many people garner much from the teachings from the Bible.. many many different things. For instance Fred Phelps believes about 99% of the people are going to burn in hell.. others don't believe that. The two parties read the same book.

Oh wise one I invite you to Deuteronomy 21:18-21.
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

Thats not an apostate.. thats just a stubborn or rebellious child..

Given your distaste for the muslim religion and what it says.. and then learning what I just gave you.. the only conclusion is that you now must get rid of your Christian friends.. although I'm quite sure your friends would love to know that you think their religion is "rubbish" as you stated earlier..

Still not ducking..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
You are right about the divisions in Iraq. In my life time, the number one killers of muslims have been.....OTHER MUSLIMS.
I'll accept your concession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
It doesn't really matter what muslims say.
I know right! It just their faith.. They should listen to you.. the person who isn't muslim to tell them what their faith is.. makes perfect sense!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
The issue should be whether what they say are consistent with the teachings of their god and their prophet.
Says the person who most likely found the anti muslim site on the interwebs and can quote without having any theological context of the quote..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
When what they say is inconsistent, I find little reason to believe what they say.
Ok. That proves nothing other than your unwillingness to learn but.. whatev..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
And I have provided evidence from their own religious teachings to prove that by denouncing terrorism they are being inconsistent with the teachings of their religion. Therefore, what you have failed to provide, is any convincing reason why anybody ought to believe what they say.
I know right.. its crazy that a Christian parent doesn't stone their child to death. The bible says to do it.. what gives? So weird. Ask your friends what their rubbish faith says about that. odd..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
What you fail to understand is that the video calls for behavior that is consistent with what the Koran and hadith teach. When a muslim says something that is consistent with what their god and prophet teach, I am more inclined to believe him (or her).
So its to be believed when it fits your agenda.. not otherwise.. gotcha. Isn't it just easier to say "I don't like Muslims".

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
Wow, I am impressed. We are supposed to believe the islam as prattled by newsmax rather than the islam that is in the Koran and hadith?
I know right! Newsmax.. the bastion of liberal muslim ideology!!! You got me!!!

Excuse me while I leave the room for a second to laugh so hard I crap my pants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
Why should I believe any muslim (cleric or otherwise) when what he says contradicts his own god and prophet?
I don't know.. ask the cleric. They said it not me.. My guess is you could find a mosque somewhere near you and you could ask a local cleric. I'm not muslim.. I don't know how these things work..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
You have still failed to give any logical reason why anybody should believe anything a muslim cleric says when he is contradicting the teachings of his god and the example set by his prophet.
But I'm not tasked to do that. The original post I responded to in this thread said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I would like to hear from our muslim friends elwill, doesn't hurt and others for their reaction to this video......this is why so many Americans and westerners view Islam as a religion of violence and death and not the religion of peace.
to which I responded
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
Do you honestly believe 1 youtube video is representative of an entire religion?

Seriously..
which is the same argument that I have now.

Now.. if you'd like to start a thread titled "Why should we believe any muslim cleric when he talks about denouncing terrorism"

.. go right ahead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
I have merely said that the content of the video is consistent with the scriptural teachings of the faith.
Let me rephrase per your way of thinking:

Its consistent with the scriptural text.

You cannot say it is consistent with the scriptural teachings of all muslims.

I mean you can say it.. you'd just be.. well wrong. As evidenced by the 7 or so links I've posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
I have also said (proved actually) that muslims who denounce terrorism are contradicting the teachings of their god and their prophet.
Yes.. just like I've proved that Christians who don't stone their children to death are contradicting the teaching of their god.

Good work inspector..
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:10 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,205,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Name a muslim country.
Oh.. Kd.. this is disappointing..

You stated it was a fact that every muslim country is not..

what was the word you used.. ah yes.. I believe it was "neighborly"

That indicates you did your homework. Are you asking me to do your homework for you and thus freely admitting that what you posted was pure opinion and not based on any kind of factual evidence..

let me know.. I'm very patient
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Ireland
899 posts, read 1,710,503 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego4802 View Post
I have merely pointed out that this allah guy says nasty things about us non-believers. I don't have to like it, and I can say that I don't like it.
So you judge 1.2 billion people by what it says in a book that you don't seem to know how to spell the title of. (It starts with a Q not a KKK)

The 'allah guy' doesn't say anything -- he's dead.
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:56 PM
 
4,669 posts, read 4,089,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
Oh.. Kd.. this is disappointing..

You stated it was a fact that every muslim country is not..

what was the word you used.. ah yes.. I believe it was "neighborly"

That indicates you did your homework. Are you asking me to do your homework for you and thus freely admitting that what you posted was pure opinion and not based on any kind of factual evidence..

let me know.. I'm very patient

My point being is that it's a general statement that wherever you find a muslim country, they don't get along with their neighbors. They just don't play nicely.

Pakistan and India are examples. The palestines' continued attacks on Israel are another.

Muslims are just a violent people. It's just a fact.
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Old 06-09-2009, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Ireland
899 posts, read 1,710,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Muslims are just a violent people. It's just a fact.
It's a fact eh?

Okay so, seeing that you are so well up on these things perhaps you might tell us all how many Muslims took an active part in:

World War 1

World War 2

Korea

Vietnam

I'll just leave it at these four wars for starters. But you should do your homework well because I have a huge list for you. Then we'll see how good you really are with 'facts'.
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Old 06-09-2009, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Ireland
899 posts, read 1,710,503 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Name a muslim country.
Well with 10 million Muslims in it (according to the CIA Facts Book) I suppose the USA could be said to be pretty strongly Muslim.
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