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Old 09-27-2008, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,144 posts, read 5,108,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
why then you didn't accept my scientific proofs in the quran ?
The verses from the Qur'an didn't give descriptions of the scientific discoveries. Science books and books that give scientific information give verifiable evidences which present them scientifically. It can't be verified that the verses in the Qur'an aren't clear enough in their meaning so someone could distinguish what they are talking about. For example the verse #Quran ( [006:125] Those whom God (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth God (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.)

This doesn't really seem to be talking about a modern scientific discovery as what happens to those who follow Islam and the nonbelievers or some other religious meaning, although as a scientific proof would be rather questionable. In a science book for example, it gives the explicit scientific fact the earth is four and a half billion years old, it doesn't make you do guesswork to try and decipher what it is saying.

Last edited by agnostic soldier; 09-27-2008 at 06:40 PM..
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Old 09-27-2008, 07:00 PM
 
148 posts, read 263,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
The verses from the Qur'an didn't give descriptions of the scientific discoveries. Science books and books that give scientific information give verifiable evidences which present them scientifically. It can't be verified that the verses in the Qur'an aren't clear enough in their meaning so someone could distinguish what they are talking about. For example the verse #Quran ( [006:125] Those whom God (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth God (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.)

This doesn't really seem to be talking about a modern scientific discovery as what happens to those who follow Islam and the nonbelievers or some other religious meaning, although as a scientific proof would be rather questionable. In a science book for example, it gives the explicit scientific fact the earth is four and a half billion years old, it doesn't make you do guesswork to try and decipher what it is saying.
It would be tedious if the Quran talk about science as you want.

The idea is very clear, that is the most important.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,144 posts, read 5,108,084 times
Reputation: 2539
Quote:
Originally Posted by a slave of Allah View Post
It would be tedious if the Quran talk about science as you want.

The idea is very clear, that is the most important.
Why does the Qur'an not have to talk about science as a regular science book should. If it talks about science and has scientific proofs then it should put them in modern scientific jargon so people don't have to speculate on what the verses are speaking. Also, muslims seem to be the only ones who are able to find these 'scientific proofs' in the Qur'an.

Last edited by agnostic soldier; 09-27-2008 at 09:45 PM..
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Old 09-28-2008, 05:47 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
The verses from the Qur'an didn't give descriptions of the scientific discoveries. Science books and books that give scientific information give verifiable evidences which present them scientifically. It can't be verified that the verses in the Qur'an aren't clear enough in their meaning so someone could distinguish what they are talking about. For example the verse #Quran ( [006:125] Those whom God (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth God (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.)

This doesn't really seem to be talking about a modern scientific discovery as what happens to those who follow Islam and the nonbelievers or some other religious meaning, although as a scientific proof would be rather questionable. In a science book for example, it gives the explicit scientific fact the earth is four and a half billion years old, it doesn't make you do guesswork to try and decipher what it is saying.
you are completely right , i understand what you mean , but let us think logically
we agree that quran not scientific book , it's relegious book
the aim and the purpose from quran not to have scientific knowledge
you know ? , niether early muslims nor mohammed (pbuh) himself knew or read these verses as to be scientific or as to be scienific facts or as to be scientific miracles

the great miracle of the quran , that it always have new miracles through the time for every generation , millions of muslims memorized quran , although i believe that quran still have miracles in it's words for the people of the future

quran isn't miracle for mohammed's people only ( in language) but it's miracle and massage for all the people untill the last hour

[RIGHT]53 - Soon will We show them Our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?

after all , i didn't realize yet what do you want as a proofs
do you want another prophet be sent from God with scientific book to trust him ?

[/RIGHT]
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,144 posts, read 5,108,084 times
Reputation: 2539
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
you are completely right , i understand what you mean , but let us think logically
we agree that quran not scientific book , it's relegious book
the aim and the purpose from quran not to have scientific knowledge
you know ? , niether early muslims nor mohammed (pbuh) himself knew or read these verses as to be scientific or as to be scienific facts or as to be scientific miracles

the great miracle of the quran , that it always have new miracles through the time for every generation , millions of muslims memorized quran , although i believe that quran still have miracles in it's words for the people of the future

quran isn't miracle for mohammed's people only ( in language) but it's miracle and massage for all the people untill the last hour

[RIGHT]53 - Soon will We show them Our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?

after all , i didn't realize yet what do you want as a proofs
do you want another prophet be sent from God with scientific book to trust him ?

[/RIGHT]
What I would consider proofs would be something that someone could test to prove exists. For example, someone can prove gravity exists by going to the top of a building and dropping a block of lead or some other object off the building. The object would fall to the ground which would prove gravity exists. Or something else like oxygen which someone could prove exists by holding their breath since they need oxygen. Evidence that has come from a testable hypothesis of a god would make me more inclined to believe that god exists.
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Old 09-28-2008, 03:10 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,146 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
What I would consider proofs would be something that someone could test to prove exists. For example, someone can prove gravity exists by going to the top of a building and dropping a block of lead or some other object off the building. The object would fall to the ground which would prove gravity exists. Or something else like oxygen which someone could prove exists by holding their breath since they need oxygen. Evidence that has come from a testable hypothesis of a god would make me more inclined to believe that god exists.
thank you for your patience and your answering to my comments
i will try to give you another example , if you didn't accept it tell me your reasons ,okey ?

so , you need somthing that someone could test to prove it exists !!
i think i have one , let us see this miracle and the proofs of it's existence

one of the miracles of prophet Mohammed PBUH was the splitting of the moon.
Some polytheists asked the prophet PBUH to split the moon if he is telling them the truth and he is the messenger of Allah. They were trying to ask for something impossible to improve what they believe. The prophet Mohammed supplicated to Allah to split the moon, and this is what happened!Polytheists could not believe their eyes. Some of them realized at that moment that prophet Mohammed is the messenger of Allah and became Muslims. Some others said that this is some type of magic and they will not believe in Islam. They asked the convoy arrived to Mecca after few days if they could see the split moon, and they assured them of this, so they realized this is not a magic since magic would effect people with the magician but not that far!

The splitting of the moon is mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, Surah Al-Qamar (54), Verses 1-3:
The hour drew nigh and the moon was rent in twain.
And if they behold a portent they turn away and say:
Prolonged illusionThey denied (the Truth) and followed their own lusts.
Yet everything will come to a decision.


so this is somthing happend by the power of God in the lifetime of mohammed (pbuh) , but we need to test this informations to be sure that it is the truth
so just write "Lunar Rille"in the search box in the web of Nasa

APOD: 2002 October 29 - A Lunar Rille
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