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Old 02-12-2007, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 12,080,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
I strongly disagree. They aren't the same. The Jewish religion doesn't acknoweldge Allah nor does the Christian faith as Jehovah. How far back did you research?
Madicarus is simply wrong as has been exhaustively demonstrated to him in the thread he mentioned. Allah and Jehovah are not the same. Jehovah has a Son, Jesus.
Allah is a moon god pagan remnant who had three daughters and was one of 360 deities in pagan ancient Arabia.
Allah has no son.
Islam recognized Jesus only as a prophet, not as God. There's kind of a big difference there...
If Jesus isn't recognized as God to the Muslims, He cannot be Allah can He?
The attributes of Allah are completely different than those of Jehovah.
It's pretty clear, though I suppose you can deny deny deny...but to what purpose I don't know.
Allah is a pagan moon god. That's historically documented, as is Allah's origin and promotion to "supreme" god.
God is not Allah and never will be. Just as Jesus is not Allah's son.
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Old 02-12-2007, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,166,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoMark View Post
Madicarus is simply wrong as has been exhaustively demonstrated to him in the thread he mentioned.
No it was not "simply" demonstrated to me or anyone. It's simple, you believe Allah of the Quran and God of the bible are two different entities because you view them as having two different names. It's not as simple as saying, Jeff can't be Frank because his name is Jeff. But it's a translation that you close you eyes and mind to see. "Allah" is how you say "God" in Arabic. If you hear a Chrisitan speaking Arabic and they say praise to God of the bible, they will say "Allah", not God. Does that mean the Arab Christians is praising some moon god? Why yes in your belief.

Simple, same God, different message, therefore different set of beliefs of the same God. You find the most arcane usage of the word "Allah" to defend your beliefs but the fact is they are wrong.

Last edited by madicarus2000; 02-12-2007 at 01:32 PM.. Reason: html
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Old 02-12-2007, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,166,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
I strongly disagree. They aren't the same. The Jewish religion doesn't acknoweldge Allah nor does the Christian faith as Jehovah
You refer to Allah and Jehovah as being two different entities based on their name, when it fact it is a translation issue. So I can say that Christianity praises multiple Gods because it praises God and Jehovah. So it is polytheistic, right. Get beyond the limits of names and realize it is a translation. The main reason you wont hear Christians and Jews saying it is the same God and the revealed word of God, it is because Muslims believe Christians and Jews distorted the word of their same God. So if Christians and Jews acknowledge that it is the same God, then it devalues their own beliefs. I can understand that point, but to say "not the same God since it is known as Allah" is very limited in understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
How far back did you research?
Actually my research has been pretty extensive but I'm not blinded by faith and animosity to debase a religion that claims to honor the same God. I’m able to research with an open mind as I don’t have any religious agenda in debasing one religious faith over another.

Last edited by madicarus2000; 02-12-2007 at 02:02 PM.. Reason: grammar
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:04 PM
 
165 posts, read 286,614 times
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The name Allah is a contraction of al-ilah which roughly translates as "the god".

Compare this with the Hebrew word eloah.
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:41 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 924,474 times
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We wonder how it gets all mixed up!! Translations are the root of all evil!!
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Old 02-12-2007, 04:30 PM
 
36 posts, read 89,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
You know what, I have read the Quran and I don't recall reading anything that you've postulated.

I find this entire post misrepresents the Muslim faith!

More prejudice than fact!
Well, Ok if you read the Quran maybe you missed the following Sura's.

1. Sura 4:34 "Men are the managers of the affairs of women.---Those you fear may be rebellious --admonish; banish them to their couches and BEAT them."

You might recall information about Saudi Arabia, where women have to have a written slip from their husbands to be out of the house. They are forbidden to drive cars. And if they don't were the facial dress (can't remember what it's called) them may be beaten publicly. If they change religions, the family can Kill them without breaking the law.

2. Sura 9:5 "Fight and slay the pagans (non Muslims) wherever ye find them, and seize them (kidnap), beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of WAR.

So much for being at peace with those who don't agree with being a Muslim.
Violence is commanded to the death.

3. Sura 9:73 "Make WAR on unbelievers and hypocrites, and deal rigorously with them.

Isn't this what they've done. As I remember War and peace are opposites.
War is violent, brutal and involves killing.

4. Sura 8:59 "Let no the unbelievers think they will ever get away. They have not the power to do so. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of God (Allah not Jehovah of the Bible), and your enemy."

5. Anyone that resists Islam---Sura 5:33 'Their punishment is---EXECUTION, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from the opposite sides, or exile from the land."

6. Muslims and Islam are NOT TO BE FRIENDS of NON-MUSLIMS. Sura 5:51 It is forbidden to be friends with Jews or Christians. If we have the same God why is this????? Ask a Muslim about this Sura.

7. The God of the Bible says that his Son would be born of a Virgin in Bethleham. Jesus all throughout the Gospels claimed to be the Son of God.
So according to the Bible this is the Basis for the Christian Faith. However,
the Koran says in Sura 19:88 "Those who say the Lord of Mercy has begotten a Son preach a monstrous falsehood, at which the very heavens might crack, the earth break asunder, and the mountains crumble to dust. that they should ascribe a Son to the merciful, when it did not become him to beget one."

So according to the Koran, their God didn't have a Son, but according to the Bible God had a Son. Are they the same God? Nope.


If you can from your reading of the Koran refute these Sura's, fine. But if not why say that I stated misrepresentations?
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Old 02-12-2007, 04:43 PM
 
36 posts, read 89,059 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoMark View Post
Madicarus is simply wrong as has been exhaustively demonstrated to him in the thread he mentioned. Allah and Jehovah are not the same. Jehovah has a Son, Jesus.
Allah is a moon god pagan remnant who had three daughters and was one of 360 deities in pagan ancient Arabia.
Allah has no son.
Islam recognized Jesus only as a prophet, not as God. There's kind of a big difference there...
If Jesus isn't recognized as God to the Muslims, He cannot be Allah can He?
The attributes of Allah are completely different than those of Jehovah.
It's pretty clear, though I suppose you can deny deny deny...but to what purpose I don't know.
Allah is a pagan moon god. That's historically documented, as is Allah's origin and promotion to "supreme" god.
God is not Allah and never will be. Just as Jesus is not Allah's son.
Yep, you're right, there is lots of information out there and just as you stated I found out the Allah had 3 daughters, (almost forgot that one.)

Last edited by whitelite; 02-12-2007 at 04:52 PM.. Reason: additon
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Old 02-12-2007, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,166,703 times
Reputation: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
If you can from your reading of the Koran refute these Sura's, fine. But if not why say that I stated misrepresentations?
Guess what, I can also print up passages from the bible that deal with rape, incest, beastility, prostitution, the dominance of men over women, the penalities for intercourse during a womans “cycle”, orgies, public exposure, phallic symbols, strip dances, fertility contest, bigamy; just to name a few and lay them out as fact for you to counter your presentation of verses from the quran.

Guess what also, same God different set of beliefs. You don’t have to believe it, but it’s true.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,166,703 times
Reputation: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
Yep, you're right, there is lots of information out there and just as you stated I found out the Allah had 3 daughters, (almost forgot that one.)
Yep, there's also a lot of information out there to prove the bibles is false when the bible is presented as fact. However it takes faith to believe it to be true and ingnorance to debase another religion.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,925,906 times
Reputation: 3840
Thanks for stepping up to the query-plate.

I am exhausted and I need to get my ticket to Peoria. PHM is waiting for my at the train-station!

Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
Guess what, I can also print up passages from the bible that deal with rape, incest, beastility, prostitution, the dominance of men over women, the penalities for intercourse during a womans “cycle”, orgies, public exposure, phallic symbols, strip dances, fertility contest, bigamy; just to name a few and lay them out as fact for you to counter your presentation of verses from the quran.

Guess what also, same God different set of beliefs. You don’t have to believe it, but it’s true.
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