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Old 02-13-2007, 04:57 PM
 
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Mark, it's a serious question.
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,911,600 times
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I can't provide a better source at the moment; and won't take this as fact, but taken from the Myths of Islam site); It says:

In sub-bar: Allah is not the God of the Bible but is the personal name for the Islamic God!

It then goes on to proclaim:


The phrase, "no god but Allah"? proves "Allah" is not just another word for "God" to the Muslims. The transliterated phrase from Arabic reads, "La ilaha illAllah." A word for word translation into English would read: La [no] ilaha [god] ill [except or but] Allah [Allah]. The important thing to note is that the word "Allah" is a name and is not the word for god. If "Allah" were the word for god, then the phrase would read, "there is no allah but allah. Clearly it does not. The Qur’an itself claims that Allah is the personal name of the Islamic god: (017.110) "Say, Call Him Allah or call Him Ar-Rahman; whatever the name you call Him, all His names are beautiful." If "Allah" were the word for god, then Islam’s god is nameless. There is also no evidence that the word "Allah" is a contraction of the words "al ilah," which means, "the god." If it were, then again, the phrase would read, "there is no allah but allah." As part of the first "Pillar of Islam," this issue is critical as Islam claims that the God of the Bible (whose name is Yahweh) and Allah are one in the same and that we all, therefore, worship the same god.
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 12,074,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
I can't provide a better source at the moment; and won't take this as fact, but taken from the Myths of Islam site); It says:

In sub-bar: Allah is not the God of the Bible but is the personal name for the Islamic God!

It then goes on to proclaim:


The phrase, "no god but Allah"? proves "Allah" is not just another word for "God" to the Muslims. The transliterated phrase from Arabic reads, "La ilaha illAllah." A word for word translation into English would read: La [no] ilaha [god] ill [except or but] Allah [Allah]. The important thing to note is that the word "Allah" is a name and is not the word for god. If "Allah" were the word for god, then the phrase would read, "there is no allah but allah. Clearly it does not. The Qur’an itself claims that Allah is the personal name of the Islamic god: (017.110) "Say, Call Him Allah or call Him Ar-Rahman; whatever the name you call Him, all His names are beautiful." If "Allah" were the word for god, then Islam’s god is nameless. There is also no evidence that the word "Allah" is a contraction of the words "al ilah," which means, "the god." If it were, then again, the phrase would read, "there is no allah but allah." As part of the first "Pillar of Islam," this issue is critical as Islam claims that the God of the Bible (whose name is Yahweh) and Allah are one in the same and that we all, therefore, worship the same god.
Very interesting! Thank you for your contribution It's clear that there's debate even how the word/name "Allah" originated!
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
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Ismael had a real beef -- if we take the whole book story to heart. Tossed aside; sort of like a Sicilian story or Cain and Abel, for that matter.

Certainly he and then his family (read Muslims) would take much from his heritage and his heritage is Abraham.

The Muslims came late to the parlour game, but they came on strong. It is here, and here alone, I agree with the OP: Islam was angry and terrifyingly ready to take on any and all that stood in their way. They have, however, converted more people than any faith (I think) in modern times.

Although a novel, The Book of Saladin: A Novel (Paperback) by Tariq Al is enormously useful--and presents a perspective that we rarely see in the West. Saladin, himself, is a historical figure, and Tariq Al presents him in a bold and brilliant manner. I highly recommend it (as much of the background offers facts about Islam, the Muslim mind-set and an historical overview).
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Old 02-13-2007, 06:20 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 922,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
Ismael had a real beef -- if we take the whole book story to heart. Tossed aside; sort of like a Sicilian story or Cain and Abel, for that matter.

Certainly he and then his family (read Muslims) would take much from his heritage and his heritage is Abraham.

The Muslims came late to the parlour game, but they came on strong. It is here, and here alone, I agree with the OP: Islam was angry and terrifyingly ready to take on any and all that stood in their way. They have, however, converted more people than any faith (I think) in modern times.

Although a novel, The Book of Saladin: A Novel (Paperback) by Tariq Al is enormously useful--and presents a perspective that we rarely see in the West. Saladin, himself, is a historical figure, and Tariq Al presents him in a bold and brilliant manner. I highly recommend it (as much of the background offers facts about Islam, the Muslim mind-set and an historical overview).
Would this be converted the willing or you will die if you don't convert?
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Old 02-13-2007, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,911,600 times
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In modern times, I would reckon they are only converting the willing!



Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
Would this be converted the willing or you will die if you don't convert?
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 775,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
I guess I don't know where you're going with this. You accused me of taking the Quran out of context, but then you quote the Bible's Old Testament as proof.

Again I will ask, please show me how I took the Quran suras out of context? The Answer is you can't.
The entire point of the original post was to diminish Islam, Muslims, and the Quran because they're basically murderers, adulterers, etc, and your means of providing "proof" was taking random suras that denote any sort of death or destruction.

I was clearly mocking your attempts to degrade any ENTIRE PEOPLE by taking controversial verses from the OT and applying them to my own assumption that Jews and Christians must similarly be murderers out to kill all gentiles/infidels. It seems as though you did not choose to consider that aspect, because only your religion is true because God and his Bible said so, right?

So what is your response to the amount of killing and destruction commanded by God in the Old Testament? How is your god not considered merciless and Christians not murderers or barbarians?
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Old 02-13-2007, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,165,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
I can't provide a better source at the moment; and won't take this as fact, but taken from the Myths of Islam site);
Well if we’re going to use websites to support statements then here is something from Wikipedia under Islam:

“Muslims consider Allāh to be the same deity as that worshipped by Christians and Jews, the God of Abraham. Allāh is also used by Arab speaking Christian and Jewish people to refer to God as they worship him..”

Looks like there is support that it is the same God. Let me guess though, for some, if it supports their belief, they will claim it as a valid source but if it doesn’t support their belief, they are going to make some wild claim that it is not valid source document.
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Old 02-13-2007, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,165,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elishan View Post
Mark, it's a serious question.
I wouldn’t expect a coherent response. Remember, this is the same person who stated:

“Christians tend to think that because we have the Torah in our Bible, we have most of our theology in common with the Jews. It isn't so. The differences are vast and make us completely different in our concepts of God, who He is, and the role and state of man.” [

But he states they are the same God. His repeated statements regarding Islam is that the God of the Quran is not the same God as the bible because Muslims do not believe in the same concept of God as Christians do.

So his statements can be paraphrased as:
“Muslims don’t believe in the Christian concept of God so they are not the same God”; “Jews do not believe in the Christian concept of God but they are the same God”.

Yet he requests reasoned logic and doesn’t see the inconsistency of his own arguments.
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Old 02-13-2007, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 12,074,645 times
Reputation: 2000001303
Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
Well if we’re going to use websites to support statements then here is something from Wikipedia under Islam:

“Muslims consider Allāh to be the same deity as that worshipped by Christians and Jews, the God of Abraham. Allāh is also used by Arab speaking Christian and Jewish people to refer to God as they worship him..”

Looks like there is support that it is the same God. Let me guess though, for some, if it supports their belief, they will claim it as a valid source but if it doesn’t support their belief, they are going to make some wild claim that it is not valid source document.
No one claimed that the MUSLIMS don't consider Allah to be the God of the Bible!!! The claim has been by Christians that Allah is not the God of the Bible, one of whom is me.

As Ronald Reagan would have said: "There you go again!!!"

Any decent study of the way the word is used by Arab speakers who are not Muslim will also show it's impersonal and not considered a personal pronoun in their use.

I'll bet your college papers were interesting!!

Professor: "Madicarus, um....there're a lot of pages here and it's beautifully written and well presented, but where are the footnotes and sources to support your thesis. I could claim the moon is cheese too, but the Apollo missions didn't find cheese and brought back moon rocks from a rocky landscape. If your moon is cheese, it cannot be the same moon the astronauts landed on. I'd need proof and references to the contrary to support your claim, wouldn't I?"

Madicarus: "Oh...I need to support my claims in the face of contrary evidence with facts? I'm sorry, I thought my word was enough Professor..."

Last edited by MoMark; 02-13-2007 at 10:13 PM..
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