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Old 12-25-2008, 02:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Dan View Post
So do Muslims believe that Muhammed is The Messiah?


1) (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah).
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #45)

2) And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #157)

3) O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)

4) The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favoured angels. Whoso scorneth His service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him;
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #172)

5) They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah's is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #17)

6) They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #72)

7) The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #75)

8) And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #30)

9) They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #31)
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Old 12-25-2008, 10:14 PM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,067,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by favoured View Post
Muslims definitely believe in Jesus, they just don't believe that Jesus is the son of God. From what I know from talking to people, muslims believe that o one gave birth to God and God did not give birth to anyone. That being said, muslims believe that Jesus was a great prophet.
And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son.

Assuredly ye utter a disastrous thing

Whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins,

That ye ascribe unto the Beneficent a son,
When it is not meet for (the Majesty of) the Beneficent that He should choose a son.

There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.

Verily He knoweth them and numbereth them with (right) numbering. Sura #19 88 - 95


************************************************** ***


O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:36 AM
 
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..... knelt before his feet and washed them with perfume and tears, and then dried his feet with her hair. Jesus turned .......Ibn Kathir: Story of Prophet Isa/Jesus (pbuh)






.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:40 AM
 
762 posts, read 990,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
..... knelt before his feet and washed them with perfume and tears, and then dried his feet with her hair. Jesus turned .......Ibn Kathir: Story of Prophet Isa/Jesus (pbuh)






.
Really it would have been better if Mohammed had left out everything in the Quran regarding Jesus. You believe that by mentioning Jesus in the Quran is venerating him as a prophet of God, but by denying his true status you are insulting and belittling him. I feel sad for you that you have been taught this as truth.

In this paragraph..


She had not gone far, when she was overtaken by the pains of childbirth. She saw down against a dry palm tree, and here she gave birth to a son. Looking at her beautiful baby, she was hurt that she had brought him into the world without a father. She exclaimed: "I wish I had died before this happened and had vanished into nothingness!"

This is awful...why would you suppose that Mary would wish that she had died and vanished rather than do Gods will with a glad heart? Mary knew the hardships she would face, the Angel Gabriel told her not to fear that God was with her. Anyone who is told by the authority of an Angel that God is with them...have nothing to fear.

Unlike maybe Mohammed who went home in a state of panic convinced he had been confronted by a jinn or demon. Work it out.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,320,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Really it would have been better if Mohammed had left out everything in the Quran regarding Jesus. You believe that by mentioning Jesus in the Quran is venerating him as a prophet of God, but by denying his true status you are insulting and belittling him. I feel sad for you that you have been taught this as truth.

In this paragraph..


She had not gone far, when she was overtaken by the pains of childbirth. She saw down against a dry palm tree, and here she gave birth to a son. Looking at her beautiful baby, she was hurt that she had brought him into the world without a father. She exclaimed: "I wish I had died before this happened and had vanished into nothingness!"

This is awful...why would you suppose that Mary would wish that she had died and vanished rather than do Gods will with a glad heart? Mary knew the hardships she would face, the Angel Gabriel told her not to fear that God was with her. Anyone who is told by the authority of an Angel that God is with them...have nothing to fear.

Unlike maybe Mohammed who went home in a state of panic convinced he had been confronted by a jinn or demon. Work it out.
Well look at what you believe Jesus(as) said: "My Father! If it is possible, let this cup of suffering be taken away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine." from Matt 26:39

The great people did not want to endure their hardships and prayed they could be spared from them. but the Pious such as Maryam, Jesus and Muhammad did accept them even if they desired not to.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:22 PM
 
1,884 posts, read 1,658,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
In this paragraph..

She had not gone far, when she was overtaken by the pains of childbirth. She saw down against a dry palm tree, and here she gave birth to a son. Looking at her beautiful baby, she was hurt that she had brought him into the world without a father. She exclaimed: "I wish I had died before this happened and had vanished into nothingness!"

This is awful...why would you suppose that Mary would wish that she had died and vanished rather than do Gods will with a glad heart? .


because she did not know yet how to proof to her people that the baby was resulted by the spirit of Allah.

and miserable scenario came to her mind that made her say "Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!"

but when the baby spoke to her then she calmed down and got the knowledge that she is not alone and went to her people carring him with full confidence

23 And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm-tree. She said: Oh, would that I had died ere this and had become a thing of naught, forgotten!

24 Then (one) cried unto her from below her, saying: Grieve not! Thy Lord hath placed a rivulet beneath thee,

25 And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee, thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee.

26 So eat and drink and be consoled. And if thou meetest any mortal, say: Lo! I have vowed a fast unto the Beneficent, and may not speak this day to any mortal.

27 Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.

28 O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.

29 Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?

30 He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,

31 And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,

32 And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.

33 Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

34 Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.

35 It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.

36 And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:49 PM
 
762 posts, read 990,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Well look at what you believe Jesus(as) said: "My Father! If it is possible, let this cup of suffering be taken away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine." from Matt 26:39

The great people did not want to endure their hardships and prayed they could be spared from them. but the Pious such as Maryam, Jesus and Muhammad did accept them even if they desired not to.
Matt 26:42
He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”

43 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

45 Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour has come, and the Son of Man is delivered into the hands of sinners. 46 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!”

Jesus knew what was ordained for him from the beginning.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:14 PM
 
762 posts, read 990,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
because she did not know yet how to proof to her people that the baby was resulted by the spirit of Allah.

and miserable scenario came to her mind that made her say "Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!"

but when the baby spoke to her then she calmed down and got the knowledge that she is not alone and went to her people carring him with full confidence

23 And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm-tree. She said: Oh, would that I had died ere this and had become a thing of naught, forgotten!

24 Then (one) cried unto her from below her, saying: Grieve not! Thy Lord hath placed a rivulet beneath thee,

25 And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee, thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee.

26 So eat and drink and be consoled. And if thou meetest any mortal, say: Lo! I have vowed a fast unto the Beneficent, and may not speak this day to any mortal.

27 Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.

28 O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.

29 Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?

30 He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,

31 And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,

32 And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.

33 Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

34 Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.

35 It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.

36 And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path.
There are a number of problems and inconsistencies with this version..

If you believe that Jesus was an ordinary flesh and blood person, albeit a prophet, then as other flesh and blood prophets before him he would have been like any other. So on that basis it would not be possible for a newborn to speak, as it is scientifically impossible. I believe it's something to do with the development of the larynx. So is Mohammed admitting that Jesus could be more than just a prophet?

Oh sister of Aaron... Mary was of the tribe of David, she is descended from Judah, not Levi, (Aaron's tribal forefather).

Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet, .... No where in the Bible is it said that Jesus referred to God as Allah, but usually he referred to God as Father. If these words were spoken by a new born Jesus, When was he given (note past tense) the scriptures? In the womb? Or before conception...which would then lead one to believe that Jesus existed with God from the beginning of time. This of course would fit in with Biblical teaching but not really with the Quran's viewpoint, that of Jesus just being the next in a line of Prophets.

Peace be on me...sounds very much like "peace be upon him" a phrase constantly used in Islam in relation to Prophet Mohammed.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,320,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
There are a number of problems and inconsistencies with this version..

If you believe that Jesus was an ordinary flesh and blood person, albeit a prophet, then as other flesh and blood prophets before him he would have been like any other. So on that basis it would not be possible for a newborn to speak, as it is scientifically impossible. I believe it's something to do with the development of the larynx. So is Mohammed admitting that Jesus could be more than just a prophet?

Oh sister of Aaron... Mary was of the tribe of David, she is descended from Judah, not Levi, (Aaron's tribal forefather).

Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet, .... No where in the Bible is it said that Jesus referred to God as Allah, but usually he referred to God as Father. If these words were spoken by a new born Jesus, When was he given (note past tense) the scriptures? In the womb? Or before conception...which would then lead one to believe that Jesus existed with God from the beginning of time. This of course would fit in with Biblical teaching but not really with the Quran's viewpoint, that of Jesus just being the next in a line of Prophets.

Peace be on me...sounds very much like "peace be upon him" a phrase constantly used in Islam in relation to Prophet Mohammed.
Have you ever read the Description of Moses(PBUH) in the Jewish Talmud and Oral traditions?

Quote:
Birth of Moses
Main articles: Moses and Moses in rabbinic literature

The birth of Moses as the liberator of the people of Israel was foretold to Pharaoh by his soothsayers, in consequence of which he issued the cruel command to cast all the male children into the river.[15] The account of the creation of the water on the second day, therefore, does not close with the usual formula, "And God saw that it was good," because God foresaw that Moses would suffer through water.[15] Later on, Miriam also foretold to her father, Amram, that a son would be born to him who would liberate Israel from the yoke of Egypt.[15]

Moses was born on Adar 7 (Talmud Megillah 13b) in the year 2377 after the creation of the world.[15] He was born circumcised, and was able to walk immediately after his birth; but according to another story he was circumcised on the eighth day after birth.[15] A peculiar and glorious light filled the entire house at his birth, indicating that he was worthy of the gift of prophecy.[15] He spoke with his father and mother on the day of his birth, and prophesied at the age of three.[15] His mother kept his birth secret for three months, when Pharaoh was informed that she had borne a son.[15] The mother put the child into a casket, which she hid among the reeds of the sea before the king's officers came to her.[15] For seven days his mother went to him at night to nurse him, his sister Miriam protecting him from the birds by day.[15]
SOURCE
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:26 AM
 
1,884 posts, read 1,658,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
There are a number of problems and inconsistencies with this version..

If you believe that Jesus was an ordinary flesh and blood person, albeit a prophet, then as other flesh and blood prophets before him he would have been like any other. So on that basis it would not be possible for a newborn to speak, as it is scientifically impossible. I believe it's something to do with the development of the larynx. So is Mohammed admitting that Jesus could be more than just a prophet?
answer this question with yes or no only.

do you believe that our creator has the ability to make a new born baby speak in his first day?
When Allah saith:
O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit,
so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity;
and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel;
and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission,
and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission;
and how thou didst raise the dead by My permission;
and how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs,
and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed:
This is naught else than mere magic . The Noble Quran.
Quote:

Oh sister of Aaron... Mary was of the tribe of David, she is descended from Judah, not Levi, (Aaron's tribal forefather).

.
a girl said to her friend i have to leave before midnight
and her friend said to her OK Cinderella.


Quote:

If these words were spoken by a new born Jesus, When was he given (note past tense) the scriptures? In the womb? Or before conception...which would then lead one to believe that Jesus existed with God from the beginning of time. This of course would fit in with Biblical teaching but not really with the Quran's viewpoint, that of Jesus just being the next in a line of Prophets.

.
very good point.

what could be the correct interpreter for it?

all of us were planned to live before we were born

there was a period of time from the time he was born to the time he spoke

when Allah say that he will do something he will do it for sure as if it was already happen

in this verse Allah said the day of judgment has come
but we know it has not come yet
Allah's commandment has come, therefore do not desire to hasten it;
glory be to Him, and highly exalted be He above what they associate (with Him). The Noble Quran.





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