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Old 09-13-2014, 06:08 AM
 
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And BTW, during the rock God era, the one muhammed was born into, the 5 pillars existed, and the main God Hubal, the moon God "Sin", which would later become Allah, the sun God ( I forget her name), who was married to the moon God and had 3 daughters, mentioned in the Qur;an, Al-'Uzza, al-Lat and Manah, these Gods were main Gods at lesser Kab'ba's.

Yes, all the marketplaces had Kab'ba's

And this was not Islam.
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
And BTW, during the rock God era, the one muhammed was born into, the 5 pillars existed, and the main God Hubal, the moon God "Sin", which would later become Allah, the sun God ( I forget her name), who was married to the moon God and had 3 daughters, mentioned in the Qur;an, Al-'Uzza, al-Lat and Manah, these Gods were main Gods at lesser Kab'ba's.

Yes, all the marketplaces had Kab'ba's

And this was not Islam.
Yes, the 5 pillars did exist in the past as Islam is not a new religion.

There were many Kab'bas they are small shrines. the literal meaning of Ka'ba is Cube. The Kab'ba in Mecca is of impotance as it marks the Qibla, the direction all Muslims face when saying the Required prayers


Hubal (Moon god) is a very old Chestnut, although it contains much truth it is not complete and does not tell the whole story.


The Hubal Moon god myth has been debunked numerous times, by Muslims and non-Muslims.. Here is one example from a Christian site:

“Allah is a Moon God Myth” | End Time Musings
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Yes, the 5 pillars did exist in the past as Islam is not a new religion.

There were many Kab'bas they are small shrines. the literal meaning of Ka'ba is Cube. The Kab'ba in Mecca is of impotance as it marks the Qibla, the direction all Muslims face when saying the Required prayers


Hubal (Moon god) is a very old Chestnut, although it contains much truth it is not complete and does not tell the whole story.


The Hubal Moon god myth has been debunked numerous times, by Muslims and non-Muslims.. Here is one example from a Christian site:

“Allah is a Moon God Myth” | End Time Musings

The 5 pillars existed in Qusayys religion, and had absolutely nothing to do with Islam or muslims.
In fact, it was Qusayys family influence, and the existing religion, that got Muhammed tossed out of town.

And no, Hubal was the main god and has not been debunked, this is an archeological/historical, fact.


And the quibla war to jeruslem, not Mecca until it was changed, and nobody can pin that down to when it happened.
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Old 09-13-2014, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
The 5 pillars existed in Qusayys religion, and had absolutely nothing to do with Islam or muslims.
In fact, it was Qusayys family influence, and the existing religion, that got Muhammed tossed out of town.

And no, Hubal was the main god and has not been debunked, this is an archeological/historical, fact.


And the quibla war to jeruslem, not Mecca until it was changed, and nobody can pin that down to when it happened.
Yes the Qibla was originally in Jerusalem. the change is noted in Surah Baqerah

We decreed your former qiblah only in order that We might know the Prophet's true adherents and those who were to disown him. It was indeed a hard test, but not for those whom Allah guided. (Surah al-Baqarah, 2:143 )

Many a time We have seen you turn your face towards heaven. We will make you turn towards a 'qiblah' that will please you. (Surah al-Baqarah, 2:144)
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Old 09-13-2014, 03:59 PM
 
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Keepin mind, sura 2 is well into the 90s,..97, I believe, in chronological order, and is misleading to a muslim who is not told, that all through the readings of the Qur'an, he is actually praying to Jerusulem.

Sura 2 is also suspected of being another book altogether, added to the 9th century Qur'an.
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Old 09-13-2014, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
Keepin mind, sura 2 is well into the 90s,..97, I believe, in chronological order, and is misleading to a muslim who is not told, that all through the readings of the Qur'an, he is actually praying to Jerusulem.

Sura 2 is also suspected of being another book altogether, added to the 9th century Qur'an.
Off course it is a different book from the other 113. each Surah is a separate revelation (ie Book)

As to when it was revealed Maududi seems to be in agreement with the General consensus

Quote:
Sequence

Though it is a Madani Surah, it follows naturally a Makki Surah Al- Fatihah, which ended with the prayer :"Show us the straight way". It begins with the answer to that prayer, "This is the Book (that) . . . is guidance. . ."

The greater part of Al-Baqarah was revealed during the first two years of the Holy Prophet's life at Al-Madinah. The smaller part which was revealed at a later period has been included in this Surah because its contents are closely related to those dealt with in this Surah. For instance, the verses prohibiting interest were revealed during the last period of the Holy prophet's life but have been inserted in this Surah. For the same reason, the last verses (284-286) of this Surah which were revealed at Makkah before the migration of the Holy Prophet to AI-Madinah have also been included in it.

SOURCE
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Old 09-14-2014, 07:57 AM
 
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sounds to much like an excuse.

Something Islam seems to come up with a lot of.
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Old 09-14-2014, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
sounds to much like an excuse.

Something Islam seems to come up with a lot of.
While personal assumptions and opinions are excellent starting points to encourage a search, they are not proofs.
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Old 09-14-2014, 11:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While personal assumptions and opinions are excellent starting points to encourage a search, they are not proofs.
But the sheer repetition of the that encourages the personal oppinions is an excellent point to wake up.
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Old 09-14-2014, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Jim_a49 View Post
But the sheer repetition of the that encourages the personal oppinions is an excellent point to wake up.
True

And I woke up to the conclusion the Qur'an really is the word of Allaah(swt) and not composed by Muhammad or any other man.
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