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Old 10-17-2008, 09:11 AM
 
500 posts, read 636,033 times
Reputation: 155

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AONE View Post
many have fallen at the hands of those that think they know the "will of God" and not just in Islam, There have been many lynchings from people that thought theirs was t he Christian path., You can hear so called ministers claiming "God Hates ******s" Do I need to mention te inquisition? the West ward expansion, the millions put to death because of Christianity?
Those that carry these actions out with learn a lesson of karma, it won't be avoided. perhaps if we all keep that in mind we will act more suitable towards each other.
I'm not interested in history. I'm interested in TODAY, and the future. Plus, we're supposed to learn from history, not repeat it. I don't deny the fact that Christians have done vile acts, but what is the point of bringing up events that happened centuries ago? Is it an attempt to justify Today's Islam actions?
Please stick with CURRENT EVENT AND NOT HISTORY. Thanks
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Durham, NC
499 posts, read 1,396,457 times
Reputation: 421
Default Glad a few folks get it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Arab View Post
I'm not interested in history. I'm interested in TODAY, and the future. Plus, we're supposed to learn from history, not repeat it. I don't deny the fact that Christians have done vile acts, but what is the point of bringing up events that happened centuries ago? Is it an attempt to justify Today's Islam actions?
Please stick with CURRENT EVENT AND NOT HISTORY. Thanks
Hey Christian Arab. Thanks for assisting in getting my point across. The people over on the Chicago forum blasted me as being a racist, xenophobic, and a bigot. Like they know me based on one point of view about a topic that doesn't pertain to race or ethnicity at all, but religion and cultural values. You should go over there and look at the hateful and condescending replies to my post. Really sad that these folks don't see what is happening. With some European governments finally getting tough on illegal immigration, we will see more and more illegals from N. Africa and the Middle East coming through the southern border. And of course they will head to major urban centers like CHICAGO where they can get lost in mix.
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Lake Arlington Heights, IL
5,481 posts, read 10,393,867 times
Reputation: 2794
How about a "Centrist's" point of view. I have no problem with any group as long as they try to assimilate. This doesn't mean giving up your culture, religion or language. It does mean being tolerant of others and remembering to treat others with respect and kindness. If the Islam preached is the radical "Let's propogate Jihad against all non-Muslims here in America" then I'm right with you in speaking out against it. If it is the more moderate version of Islam that extols socially acceptable, productive virtues, then let them practice their right to freedom of religion. Now I would say this about any religion. If Jews, Lutherans, Catholics, Hindu, B'Hai's start spewing hate-filled, pre-judiced viewpoints-I will speak out against them. I always thought the ads were to educate people to the moderate, main-stream Islam in attempt to fight stereo-types that all Muslims are terrorists.

I got this off the Islam.com web-site:
The literal meaning of Islam is peace; surrender of one’s will i.e. losing oneself for the sake of God and surrendering one’s own pleasure for the pleasure of God. The message of Islam was revealed to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) 1, 400 years ago. It was revealed through angel Gabriel (on whom be peace) and was thus preserved in the Holy Quran. The Holy Quran carries a Divine guarantee of safeguard from interpolation and it claims that it combines the best features of the earlier scriptures.The prime message of Islam is the Unity of God, that the Creator of the world is One and He alone is worthy of worship and that Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) is His Messenger and Servant. The follower of this belief is thus a Muslim - a Muslim’s other beliefs are: God’s angels, previously revealed Books of God, all the prophets, from Adam to Jesus (peace be on them both), the Day of Judgement and indeed the Decree of God. A Muslim has five main duties to perform, namely; bearing witness to the Unity of God and Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) as His Messenger, observing the prescribed prayer, payment of Zakat, keeping the fasts of Ramadhan and performing the pilgrimage to Mecca.Islam believes that each person is born pure. The Holy Quran tells us that God has given human beings a choice between good and evil and to seek God’s pleasure through faith, prayer and charity. Islam believes that God created mankind in His image and by imbuing the attributes of God on a human level mankind can attain His nearness. Islam’s main message is to worship God and to treat all God’s creation with kindness and compassion. Rights of parents in old age, orphans and the needy are clearly stated. Women’s rights were safeguarded 1,400 years ago when the rest of the world was in total darkness about emancipation. Islamic teachings encompass every imaginable situation and its rules and principles are truly universal and have stood the test of time.In Islam virtue does not connote forsaking the bounties of nature that are lawful. On the contrary one is encouraged to lead a healthy, active life with the qualities of kindness, chastity, honesty, mercy, courage patience and politeness. In short, Islam has a perfect and complete code for the guidance of individuals and communities alike. As the entire message of Islam is derived from the Holy Quran and indeed the Sunnah and Hadith (the traditions and practices of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings on him) it is immutable in the face of change in time and place. It may appear rigid to the casual eye, in actual fact it is most certainly an adaptable way of life regardless of human changes.Islam teaches that the path to spiritual development is open to all. Any individual who searches the One Creator can seek nearness to God through sincere and earnest worship; it is central to establishing a relationship with the Almighty. This positive message for humanity fills hearts with hope and courage.At present there are 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide and they form the majority in more than 50 countries of the world. Today Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world - its beautiful message is reaching millions in the far corner of the earth.

So Ron, what do you find objectionable?! I interpret your arguments as being racist and intolerant. I have read and heard similar arguments during American history against: Native Americans, Irish, Germans, Italians, Jews, Chinese, African Americans, Japanese, Mexicans and many other groups. If you shun people they feel marginalized and are then more likely to be un-productive citizens. This goes for any group.
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Old 10-19-2008, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Durham, NC
499 posts, read 1,396,457 times
Reputation: 421
Default Ever read the Constitution?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cubssoxfan View Post
How about a "Centrist's" point of view. I have no problem with any group as long as they try to assimilate. This doesn't mean giving up your culture, religion or language. It does mean being tolerant of others and remembering to treat others with respect and kindness. If the Islam preached is the radical "Let's propogate Jihad against all non-Muslims here in America" then I'm right with you in speaking out against it. If it is the more moderate version of Islam that extols socially acceptable, productive virtues, then let them practice their right to freedom of religion. Now I would say this about any religion. If Jews, Lutherans, Catholics, Hindu, B'Hai's start spewing hate-filled, pre-judiced viewpoints-I will speak out against them. I always thought the ads were to educate people to the moderate, main-stream Islam in attempt to fight stereo-types that all Muslims are terrorists.

I got this off the Islam.com web-site:
The literal meaning of Islam is peace; surrender of oneís will i.e. losing oneself for the sake of God and surrendering oneís own pleasure for the pleasure of God. The message of Islam was revealed to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) 1, 400 years ago. It was revealed through angel Gabriel (on whom be peace) and was thus preserved in the Holy Quran. The Holy Quran carries a Divine guarantee of safeguard from interpolation and it claims that it combines the best features of the earlier scriptures.The prime message of Islam is the Unity of God, that the Creator of the world is One and He alone is worthy of worship and that Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) is His Messenger and Servant. The follower of this belief is thus a Muslim - a Muslimís other beliefs are: Godís angels, previously revealed Books of God, all the prophets, from Adam to Jesus (peace be on them both), the Day of Judgement and indeed the Decree of God. A Muslim has five main duties to perform, namely; bearing witness to the Unity of God and Muhammad (peace and blessings on him) as His Messenger, observing the prescribed prayer, payment of Zakat, keeping the fasts of Ramadhan and performing the pilgrimage to Mecca.Islam believes that each person is born pure. The Holy Quran tells us that God has given human beings a choice between good and evil and to seek Godís pleasure through faith, prayer and charity. Islam believes that God created mankind in His image and by imbuing the attributes of God on a human level mankind can attain His nearness. Islamís main message is to worship God and to treat all Godís creation with kindness and compassion. Rights of parents in old age, orphans and the needy are clearly stated. Womenís rights were safeguarded 1,400 years ago when the rest of the world was in total darkness about emancipation. Islamic teachings encompass every imaginable situation and its rules and principles are truly universal and have stood the test of time.In Islam virtue does not connote forsaking the bounties of nature that are lawful. On the contrary one is encouraged to lead a healthy, active life with the qualities of kindness, chastity, honesty, mercy, courage patience and politeness. In short, Islam has a perfect and complete code for the guidance of individuals and communities alike. As the entire message of Islam is derived from the Holy Quran and indeed the Sunnah and Hadith (the traditions and practices of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings on him) it is immutable in the face of change in time and place. It may appear rigid to the casual eye, in actual fact it is most certainly an adaptable way of life regardless of human changes.Islam teaches that the path to spiritual development is open to all. Any individual who searches the One Creator can seek nearness to God through sincere and earnest worship; it is central to establishing a relationship with the Almighty. This positive message for humanity fills hearts with hope and courage.At present there are 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide and they form the majority in more than 50 countries of the world. Today Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world - its beautiful message is reaching millions in the far corner of the earth.

So Ron, what do you find objectionable?! I interpret your arguments as being racist and intolerant. I have read and heard similar arguments during American history against: Native Americans, Irish, Germans, Italians, Jews, Chinese, African Americans, Japanese, Mexicans and many other groups. If you shun people they feel marginalized and are then more likely to be un-productive citizens. This goes for any group.
I find the entire middle paragraph above objectionable!

I'm tired of religion in the public arena all the time in this country. Arguments about prayer in school; Ten Commandments in the City Hall; legislation of morality(most every law dealing with sex); McCain and Obama being pushed to talk about their faith during the runup to the nominations; etc..... And plastering a promotion of Islam on a city bus to me is kind of bizzare. Saying 'Happy Ramadan" or something would have been more appropriate than that. "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Hannukah" and such just acknowledges a celebration and holiday. But putting something like "Christinaity" or "Judaism" or "Atheism" or "Krishna" on a city bus in any major city could see that offend some folk's sensibilities also RIGHT???.

And by the way: my original post never once mentions ethnicity OR nationality....just faith/religion. And when I did mention nationality and ethnicity in my responses, it was in the context of particular groups predilection for choosing theocratic societies and governments.
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Old 10-19-2008, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,813,489 times
Reputation: 11318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Arab View Post
It is sickening to see this happening while Americans still sleeping. I hope they will wake up before it's too late. London is infested with Muslims that have zero respect for any culture, and any laws but their own Islamic culture and laws. The Liberals are bending over back-ward to please these people only to see them refusing to assimilate. Instead, they question the laws of the land they chose to live in, and demand changes to fit their Islamic life style which includes limit free speech, and Sharia law.

Watch the movie "Obsession", it will give you a pretty good idea how TODAY"S Islam is intolerant, and hateful religion.
Infested?
My, what disdain you feel for other humans.
Yeah, you're xian; the kind that give christians a bad name.
Who would your Jesus hate?
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Old 10-19-2008, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,662,407 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Infested?
My, what disdain you feel for other humans.
Yeah, you're xian; the kind that give christians a bad name.
Who would your Jesus hate?

Well first Islam didn't come about until about 600 yrs. after Jesus.
The ancestors of Islam were called dogs, by Jesus. They were hedonistic pagans and polytheist nomads that had no organized belief.

It really doesn't have to do with disdain for a group, but the calling out of the extreme, as you have done by siting historical so called "Christian" acts.

The non Extreme Muslims are in a similar position, but at a tipping point of a gun, do they follow the extremists and live a life of murder and conquer, or do they keep their mouths shut and do nothing.


godspeed,

freedom
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