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Old 10-20-2008, 02:08 PM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,064,081 times
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When a nation start to ignore the testament of their prophet because hundreds of years passed since their prophet died and because of new generations then a new prophet is chosen from one of them to invite them to worship Allah and unification and Allah support his prophets with miracles .

The impact of the miracle is very strong for those who saw it so the people start to become believers again and they tell the people who did not see the miracle and every generation tell the next generation but gradually the impact of the miracle is reduced and the people start to be infidels

So a new prophet is chosen from one of them and the events pass similarly

The message of Jesus (prayer and peace be upon him) was about 2000 years ago

The message of Mohammad (prayer and peace be upon him) was 600 years after Jesus (prayer and peace be upon him)

Nowadays more than 1400 years since the message of Mohammad (prayer and peace be upon him) and Allah told us in the Quran that Mohammad (prayer and peace be upon him) is the last prophet and he is sent to all people in all the world and the message is completed.

So there is no next prophet.

But should not we get a new miracle like the people in the passed ?!!

The answer is no because the miracle of Mohammad (prayer and peace be upon him) is still alive with us and it is the Holy Quran.


The Quran is a record of the exact words revealed by God through the Angel Gabriel to the Prophet Muhammad. It was memorized by Muhammad and then dictated to his Companions, and written down by scribes, who cross-checked it during his lifetime. Not one word of its 114 chapters, Suras, has been changed over the centuries, so that the Quran is in every detail the unique and miraculous text which was revealed to Muhammad fourteen centuries ago.
Understanding Islam and the Muslims - What is the Qur`an?
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Moonsun, in your comment you stated that the Quran has never been changed, if this is so then why do Sunni Muslims use the Ibn Masud Codex of the Quran and the Shi’ite Muslims use the Uthman’s version of the Quran. If both are the same then why the difference? I know the answer, I was just wondering if you do.
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:03 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
Moonsun, in your comment you stated that the Quran has never been changed, if this is so then why do Sunni Muslims use the Ibn Masud Codex of the Quran and the Shi’ite Muslims use the Uthman’s version of the Quran. If both are the same then why the difference? I know the answer, I was just wondering if you do.
just for correction
sunni muslims use the Uthman's version

first of all i need just to give you examples about these differences , though it's the first time for me to know or notice that shiits uses another version

These variant didn't concern the content of Surahs and the Qur'an, but they were differences in spellings, nouns, etc.
An example of different pronunciation in Surah Al Baqarah:
2: 70 Ibn Mas'ud reads al-baqira in place of al-baqara

An example of different spellings in Surah Al Baqarah:
2: 19 He reads kul-lama in place of kullama

An example of use of different synonyms in Surah Al Baqarah:
in 1:6 He reads arshidna in place of ihdina , both mean “guide us”.
(Variants here have no manuscript support and serve no theological or other interest)

if you interresting with more details read this
The Preservation of the Noble Quran.


btw , you said that you have the answer , can you enlighten me with it
thanx


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Old 10-21-2008, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,890 posts, read 4,203,048 times
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In answer to your inquiry: Since there were various versions of the Qur’an, some with two more Suras than other versions, the Caliph ‘Uthman ordered everyone to turn in their Qur’an, and he would issue a "standardized" version.

Muslims claim that God’s Word, the Qur’an, will never be corrupted. Be that as it may, apparently some years after Mohammed’s death, the Qur’an needed standardizing, since Caliph ‘Uthman standardized the Qur’an way after Mohammed’s death. Apparently in order that nobody could second-guess his editing, he burned almost all copies besides his standard ones. (Bukhari vol.6:510 p.479) For example, Ubai had several Suras in his Qur’an that ‘Uthman omitted from the standardized text, and thus Muslims do not read today. The Meccan Abdollah Sarh, who once made suggestions to Mohammed, and later renounced Islam, was killed. Presumably he knew too much about how Mohammed changed the Qur’an. However, a few very interesting variant copies did survive and are now in the Azhyar Library in Cairo.

Now if the Bukhari Hadiths vol.1:62, vol.4:709, and vol.6:510 are reliable at all, one has to ask why this occurred; Muslims typically do not go around destroying copies of the Qur’an.

Why did ‘Uthman have to burn other copies, unless the other copies were different?
Why did ‘Uthman need to standardize the Qur’an, unless it needed standardizing?
Why did ‘Uthman threaten death to make Muslims use the "Uthmanized" Qur’an?
Why did some Muslims reject ‘Uthman’s text in favor of their own text of the Qur’an?

Most of all if the Quran is the inerrant word of God, and can not be corrupted, then why the changes?



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Old 10-21-2008, 11:52 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
In answer to your inquiry: Since there were various versions of the Qur’an, some with two more Suras than other versions,
the supposed 2 missing Surah’s in the Quran which you refer to were not Surahs but sayings and hadiths of the prophet which some of the companions thought to be as part of the text of the Quran.

this hadith occurred in the mushaf of Ubay, it was a mushaf for his own personal use, in other words, his private notebook, where he did not always distinguish between Qur'anic material and hadith, since it was not meant for general use and he himself knew well what to make of his own notes.

However Ubay himself clarifies that after sura 102: I had been revealed, they (i.e. the companions of the prophet) did not consider the above to be part of the Qur'an. See Bukhari, VIII, No. 446. This explanation of Ubay also makes it very clear that the Companions did not differ at all about what was part of the Qur'an and what was not part of the Qur'an


Quote:
the Caliph ‘Uthman ordered everyone to turn in their Qur’an, and he would issue a "standardized" version.
did tried to ask yourself these questions if you have any doubts about his version as :

How did he arrive at that text?
On the basis of what text did the first two leaders, Abu Bakr and `Umar governed the Muslim lands before him?
What text people had been using in their daily prayers in Madinah, the city of the Prophet, which consisted almost entirely of Muslims, most having seen and heard the Prophet?
How could `Uthman change the text that had been used for twelve years before him in the presence of hundreds of companions of the Prophet who could easily detect any change to the original text and were obligated by religious principles to prevent alterations in the word of God?
And why at all would he want to change it, considering that the extant text says nothing in his favor?

There is also no evidence that anyone resisted ‘Uthman and was executed for doing so or otherwise persecuted. In fact, several traditions suggest an atmosphere of complete freedom within which promulgation of the so-called ‘Uthmanic text took place


Quote:
Why did ‘Uthman have to burn other copies, unless the other copies were different?
Why did ‘Uthman need to standardize the Qur’an, unless it needed standardizing?
this is the most important question in this issue in my openion

When Uthmaan became Khaleefah, Islaam had grown out of Arabia reaching into the far-flung areas of Byzantium and Iran. As people from new areas embraced Islam, they would learn the Qur'an from the Mujaahideen of Islam or from the traders because of whom they had found the blessing of Islam.

the Qur'an was revealed incorporating seven Huroof (versions of recitation), and different Companions had learnt it from the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). In accordance with different readings, therefore, every Companion taught the Qur'an to his disciples in accordance with that particular Huroof which they had themselves learnt from the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). In this manner, this difference in readings reached far out countries.
Until such time that people knew that the Qur'an had been revealed incorporating seven Huroof (readings) no harm was done by this difference. However, when this difference reached those far out countries, and the fact that the Qur'an had been revealed incorporating different readings was not fully publicized there, disputes among people started. Some people began to insist on their reading as correct and that of others as incorrect. On the one hand, these disputes posed the danger that people would fall into the grave error of declaring the reading of the Qur'an which have followed in uninterrupted succession as incorrect. On the other hand, there was no such standard copy available through out the Islamic world which could become the rallying authority for the entire Ummah, except, of course, the copy committed to writing by Zayd Ibne Thaabit which was there in Madeenah. Since other copies were written individually, and in them, there was no provision to incorporate all the readings, therefore, the only reliable method to resolve these disputes was that copies which incorporate all valid readings be spread out all over the Islaamic world, and then, by seeing them it could be decided as to which reading is correct and which is incorrect. Uthmaan accomplished this feat during the period of his Khilaafah.
Details of this feat is given in Hadeeth narration's as follows:
Huzayfah Ibne Yamaan was engaged in jihaad on the Armenian-Azerbaijaan front. There he noticed that differences were rising among people about readings of the Qur'an. So, on his return to Madeenah, he went straight to Uthmaan and once there, he pleaded, 'O Ameer-ul Mu'mineen! Before this Ummah falls prey to differences in the Book of Allah like the Jews and Christians, you should do something about it.' Uthmaan asked, 'What is the matter?' In reply, Huzayfah said, 'I was on a jihaad mission fighting on the Armenian front. There I saw people of Syria following the reading of Ubayi Ibne Ka'b which would not be familiar to the people of Iraq, and the people of Iran following the reading of Abdullah Ibne Mas'ood which would not be familiar to the people of Syria. As a result of this, they are charging each other of being kaafirs.'
Consequently, Uthmaan gathered people together and delivered a sermon and in it he said, "You who live so close to me in Madeenah, if you can falsify each other and differ with each other in respect of the readings of the Qur'an, it is quite obvious that those who are far away from me will be indulging in falsification and disputation on a much larger scale. Therefore, let everyone get together and come up with a copy of the Qur'an following which becomes obligatory for all."

Quote:
Why did ‘Uthman threaten death to make Muslims use the "Uthmanized" Qur’an?
Why did some Muslims reject ‘Uthman’s text in favor of their own text of the Qur’an?
i never heared about Uthman threaten death to make muslims use his version , can you provide me some details about that , plz ? but anyway i told you the reasons
i didn't hear either about muslims reject othman text

if you still have questions not answered , please feel free to ask whtever you want
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:13 PM
 
148 posts, read 263,485 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
When a nation start to ignore the testament of their prophet because hundreds of years passed since their prophet died and because of new generations then a new prophet is chosen from one of them to invite them to worship Allah and unification and Allah support his prophets with miracles .

The impact of the miracle is very strong for those who saw it so the people start to become believers again and they tell the people who did not see the miracle and every generation tell the next generation but gradually the impact of the miracle is reduced and the people start to be infidels

So a new prophet is chosen from one of them and the events pass similarly

The message of Jesus (prayer and peace be upon him) was about 2000 years ago

The message of Mohammad (prayer and peace be upon him) was 600 years after Jesus (prayer and peace be upon him)

Nowadays more than 1400 years since the message of Mohammad (prayer and peace be upon him) and Allah told us in the Quran that Mohammad (prayer and peace be upon him) is the last prophet and he is sent to all people in all the world and the message is completed.

So there is no next prophet.

But should not we get a new miracle like the people in the passed ?!!

The answer is no because the miracle of Mohammad (prayer and peace be upon him) is still alive with us and it is the Holy Quran.


The Quran is a record of the exact words revealed by God through the Angel Gabriel to the Prophet Muhammad. It was memorized by Muhammad and then dictated to his Companions, and written down by scribes, who cross-checked it during his lifetime. Not one word of its 114 chapters, Suras, has been changed over the centuries, so that the Quran is in every detail the unique and miraculous text which was revealed to Muhammad fourteen centuries ago.
Understanding Islam and the Muslims - What is the Qur`an?
May Allah reward you a good reward.
thank you very much
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2008, 05:27 PM
 
148 posts, read 263,485 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
the supposed 2 missing Surah’s in the Quran which you refer to were not Surahs but sayings and hadiths of the prophet which some of the companions thought to be as part of the text of the Quran.

this hadith occurred in the mushaf of Ubay, it was a mushaf for his own personal use, in other words, his private notebook, where he did not always distinguish between Qur'anic material and hadith, since it was not meant for general use and he himself knew well what to make of his own notes.

However Ubay himself clarifies that after sura 102: I had been revealed, they (i.e. the companions of the prophet) did not consider the above to be part of the Qur'an. See Bukhari, VIII, No. 446. This explanation of Ubay also makes it very clear that the Companions did not differ at all about what was part of the Qur'an and what was not part of the Qur'an



did tried to ask yourself these questions if you have any doubts about his version as :

How did he arrive at that text?
On the basis of what text did the first two leaders, Abu Bakr and `Umar governed the Muslim lands before him?
What text people had been using in their daily prayers in Madinah, the city of the Prophet, which consisted almost entirely of Muslims, most having seen and heard the Prophet?
How could `Uthman change the text that had been used for twelve years before him in the presence of hundreds of companions of the Prophet who could easily detect any change to the original text and were obligated by religious principles to prevent alterations in the word of God?
And why at all would he want to change it, considering that the extant text says nothing in his favor?

There is also no evidence that anyone resisted ‘Uthman and was executed for doing so or otherwise persecuted. In fact, several traditions suggest an atmosphere of complete freedom within which promulgation of the so-called ‘Uthmanic text took place



this is the most important question in this issue in my openion

When Uthmaan became Khaleefah, Islaam had grown out of Arabia reaching into the far-flung areas of Byzantium and Iran. As people from new areas embraced Islam, they would learn the Qur'an from the Mujaahideen of Islam or from the traders because of whom they had found the blessing of Islam.

the Qur'an was revealed incorporating seven Huroof (versions of recitation), and different Companions had learnt it from the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). In accordance with different readings, therefore, every Companion taught the Qur'an to his disciples in accordance with that particular Huroof which they had themselves learnt from the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). In this manner, this difference in readings reached far out countries.
Until such time that people knew that the Qur'an had been revealed incorporating seven Huroof (readings) no harm was done by this difference. However, when this difference reached those far out countries, and the fact that the Qur'an had been revealed incorporating different readings was not fully publicized there, disputes among people started. Some people began to insist on their reading as correct and that of others as incorrect. On the one hand, these disputes posed the danger that people would fall into the grave error of declaring the reading of the Qur'an which have followed in uninterrupted succession as incorrect. On the other hand, there was no such standard copy available through out the Islamic world which could become the rallying authority for the entire Ummah, except, of course, the copy committed to writing by Zayd Ibne Thaabit which was there in Madeenah. Since other copies were written individually, and in them, there was no provision to incorporate all the readings, therefore, the only reliable method to resolve these disputes was that copies which incorporate all valid readings be spread out all over the Islaamic world, and then, by seeing them it could be decided as to which reading is correct and which is incorrect. Uthmaan accomplished this feat during the period of his Khilaafah.
Details of this feat is given in Hadeeth narration's as follows:
Huzayfah Ibne Yamaan was engaged in jihaad on the Armenian-Azerbaijaan front. There he noticed that differences were rising among people about readings of the Qur'an. So, on his return to Madeenah, he went straight to Uthmaan and once there, he pleaded, 'O Ameer-ul Mu'mineen! Before this Ummah falls prey to differences in the Book of Allah like the Jews and Christians, you should do something about it.' Uthmaan asked, 'What is the matter?' In reply, Huzayfah said, 'I was on a jihaad mission fighting on the Armenian front. There I saw people of Syria following the reading of Ubayi Ibne Ka'b which would not be familiar to the people of Iraq, and the people of Iran following the reading of Abdullah Ibne Mas'ood which would not be familiar to the people of Syria. As a result of this, they are charging each other of being kaafirs.'
Consequently, Uthmaan gathered people together and delivered a sermon and in it he said, "You who live so close to me in Madeenah, if you can falsify each other and differ with each other in respect of the readings of the Qur'an, it is quite obvious that those who are far away from me will be indulging in falsification and disputation on a much larger scale. Therefore, let everyone get together and come up with a copy of the Qur'an following which becomes obligatory for all."


i never heared about Uthman threaten death to make muslims use his version , can you provide me some details about that , plz ? but anyway i told you the reasons
i didn't hear either about muslims reject othman text

if you still have questions not answered , please feel free to ask whtever you want
May Allah reward you a good reward.
thank you very much
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Old 11-01-2008, 07:12 AM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,064,081 times
Reputation: 91
thank you

The Quran, the last revealed Word of God, is the prime source of every Muslim's faith and practice. It deals with all the subjects which concern us as human beings: wisdom, doctrine, worship, and law, but its basic theme is the relationship between God and His creatures. At the same time it provides guidelines for a just society, proper human conduct and an equitable economic system.
Understanding Islam and the Muslims - What is the Qur`an about?
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Old 12-26-2008, 09:14 PM
 
154 posts, read 217,732 times
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Yes any one can change anything in the Quran

But you can differentiate from the original one and identify it clearly from the fakes because the creator of the universe who sent down the scripture has signed each and every letter in the Quran to say that it is from him.

This is a challenge from the creator for anyone to create a similar scripture or a sura like it.

Which no one was been able to do it for the last 1400 years.


for more details about God Signature in the Quran visit http://www.city-data.com/forum/relig...re#post6446049
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:14 AM
 
1,883 posts, read 1,651,007 times
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"This day, I have perfected your religion for you,
completed My Favour upon you,
and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. " The Holy Quran.
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