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Old 10-29-2008, 01:01 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,044,708 times
Reputation: 161

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Quote:
Originally Posted by calmdude View Post
So, presuming 4 witnesses were there, was the man also stoned to death? Does not make it right - just asking.
the only conclusion i had from the article , that the woman confessed by her ownself and asked for shariah law to apply to her
so , she didn't deserve the punishment niether her nor the man , because there is no allegations against them
so that they asked her to review her confess , but she insisted
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:38 PM
 
Location: England
307 posts, read 441,385 times
Reputation: 95
You didn't answer my question, elwill.

Would you help stone someone to death?
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:02 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,044,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elizabeth7 View Post
You didn't answer my question, elwill.

Would you help stone someone to death?
no
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:11 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,225,115 times
Reputation: 1470
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
honestly , it does change nothing , we can't alter the commands of our God to satisfy anyone else
but to be fair they need to condemn old testament either
Then you accept that your religion will be viewed by the west as being barbaric. Don't complain when it happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i thought that you need to understand the cultures of others , i just meant to give big difference in your culture and ours
it's okey to practise adultery in west's culture , it isn't in muslims's culture .
Yes.. stoning people is a big cultural difference.. also..

we landed on the moon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
that's why you see it disgusting to punish adulterers in the first place , am i wrong ?
Punishing adulterers isn't "insulting". Lodging pepples in their skull is.

The more excuses you give.. the worse it is.. but lets continue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
this punishment excuted for married people only , tell me again are you prefer to betray your spouse
It was a play on words. Lost in translation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
we either
what do you mean by 'we" are you refer to your relegion or your secular government ?
both

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
it's offense
anyway, as long as you know shariah very well
can you please enlighten me how shariah law prohibit you from your openion ? and give me islamic sources which support you
thanx
I don't know it very well at all. I do know that you can get rocks lodged in your skull while you are buried up to your neck. That alone gives me a pretty good idea.. anything you'd like to add?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
it's effective for two reaasons
1- if shariah law established within muslims society , this kind of punishment will not excuted ever , because no one will betray his spouse in public without or with existence of these laws
Yet we are talking about it.. because it did happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
2- it will prevent the society to be influenced by this behaviours
But it didn't.. cause it happened.. and we are talking about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
practically , we have with our article stonning punishment which excuted for the first time ever , and they said that she wanted that by her self as an repentence for her God
if they are liars , and they punished her without four witness , so the wrath of God will be in them
1. Why for the first time ever? My guess because its stupid. Just admitting that would be your first step in not condoning the behavior
2. Yet there is no evidence other than their word that she asked for that. Brilliant!
3. If they are liars.. why wait for God to bring forth his wrath.. why not stone them? Why do they get better treatment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
so this kind of punishment are under controll , i can say that it's almost impossible to fulfill the conditions of stonning punishment according to shariah
Under control? With what? Good aim? Please.. its barbaric and you know it. Your excuses do nothing for your argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
surely , isn't your laws forced you to not kill , rape or theft ?
by the way i'm talking about peace of innocents and society not guilty ones
They don't force me not to kill, rape or thieve. Its called morals.. something the men with rocks in their hands have zero of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
if they ignored the entire relegion and focused in the punishments of crimers in islam which are rarely executed , and dosn't open thier mind to undertand the purpose from it in the sight of islam , and didn't imagine the postive side of these laws , hence they will have very poor idea about islam
So its our fault.. Gotcha. Makes perfectly zero sense. But I'm glad that we agree that since nobody representing Islam has spoken out against this.. we will ahve a very poor idea about Islam.
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:23 PM
 
Location: England
307 posts, read 441,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
no
I am so glad to hear that!

Elwill, I understand your condemning our lax and immoral western culture.
I hate it as well. We in Britain have all but abandoned punishing the guilty.

I actually believe the death penalty should be administered for cold-blooded killers and child rapists and murderers. But NOT by stoning.
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,519 posts, read 10,365,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
in islam , the man deserve the same punishment if he is married and thier are 4 witnesses on his sexual intercourse
Okay here's something I don't understand, supposedly the woman confessed, yet according to your law there has to be 4 witnesses and if there are not 4 witnesses then the woman cannot be prosecuted for a crime even if she confesses because it is strictly hearsay, but even if it were true then these same four witnesses would have to be for the man, adultery takes two people, not one, so basically it sounds to me that a woman was put to death on hearsay.
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,842,581 times
Reputation: 5458
elwill wrote:
Quote:
you didn't read my posts brother
punishment of adultery need 4 witness to be executed ( whether men or women)
woman also need 4 witnesses
What in the world are you talking about? When this couple had a sexual relationship were there witnesses who watched them have sex? I doubt that very much. I also don't like the idea of a husband or wife cheating on their spouse and I know if I was married and found out my wife was having sex with another man I'd be deeply hurt. The problem I have with your explanations is that it sounds as though what you're really talking about is a bunch of nosy neighbors or at least a group of gossiping housewives that caused a woman to be brutally murdered. I was happy to read that you personally wouldn't stone a woman to death which makes me think I'm talking to a reasonable person but can't you see that those of us who live in the western world in which men and women interact in social and business situations as equals would consider such barbaric behavior as outside of the boudaries of acceptable human behavior.
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:10 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,044,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elizabeth7 View Post
I am so glad to hear that!

Elwill, I understand your condemning our lax and immoral western culture.
I hate it as well. We in Britain have all but abandoned punishing the guilty.

I actually believe the death penalty should be administered for cold-blooded killers and child rapists and murderers. But NOT by stoning.
i know that this punishment is very tough , and very horrible
and i thank God that he put coditions for it which almost can't to be fulfiled

this punishment was very tough even to our prophet (pbuh) as well , but islam means submitter to commands of God , we can't abolish any of it

stonning death established by moses (pbuh) either , why no one condemned him either , jesus himself (pbuh) honoured the laws of old testament
if christians or jews didn't want to follow thier teaching ,dosn't let us abolish teaching of our relegion as them
the same barbaric existed in bible teaching , they don't follow it , i know
but it dosn't justify thier relegion as well
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:28 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,044,708 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
elwill wrote:

What in the world are you talking about? When this couple had a sexual relationship were there witnesses who watched them have sex? I doubt that very much.
when someone confesses that he kill sombody , the court will not responding : "go away you have no proof , no one saw you" , what do you think ?
and i will repeat again , if you are not convinced that she confessed , so it's unislamic practice to punish her without fulfilled the conditions

Quote:
but can't you see that those of us who live in the western world in which men and women interact in social and business situations as equals would consider such barbaric behavior as outside of the boudaries of acceptable human behavior.
i completely realize your feeling because i feel it as well , stonning not usuall practice in muslims countries as some of you think
but in the same time i will not lie about my relegion to justify it in your eyes

the problem i had here that , though i can understand your openion taking under my consideration how your culture is, but i can't find any of you realize islamic culture

with shraih or without shariah , adultery is uncommon practise in thier culture , this is big defference in our cultures which many can't realize

Last edited by elwill; 10-30-2008 at 11:24 AM..
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:51 AM
 
Location: In the North Idaho woods, still surrounded by terriers
2,178 posts, read 6,305,193 times
Reputation: 984
It's interesting to me that much of the world condemns the USA because many of our states still use capital punishment. They call us barbaric for doing that, even though adultery would never constitute lethal injection. One has to be a pretty vicious killer to be put to death in the USA, and the vast majority of our truly vicious killers are not put to death but instead sit in prisons for life or are released after some time to kill again.

But it's cultural...we ( and least "I") do not consider lethal injection to be cruel or barbaric...but stoning someone to death would be. It's our mind-set here. We do not stone people to death, we do not cut off the hands of thieves or the noses of naughty women. It's a whole other culture...right or wrong. Right?
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