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Old 11-05-2008, 03:13 AM
 
Location: In my Mind
276 posts, read 625,044 times
Reputation: 115

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJLethal View Post
Actually Atheism is not a religion. It's an absence of belief.
.
hang on a minute an absence of belief? read back what i have written the definition of religion. a religion is not only described as an absence of God or belief, without belief then there is no logic to explain a fact of the universe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJLethal View Post
I didn't shed a tear when Pluto was demoted from a planet. Try demoting Jesus to a man only, see what happens.
Pluto is a dead planet or asteroid that people once believed to be a planet of our solar system, in which science itself has failed to prove under the circumstances of belief or fact. Some logic has failed to transfer, its reality. do i always have to believe scientist ever changing logics? if technology is ever changing then all scientist have not reached a perfection of understanding, most scientist usually continue where others left off to prove or clarify a theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJLethal View Post
Plenty of holy texts have moral guidelines. We don't need these holy texts to differentiate right and wrong. That is the brainwashing you have been fed to demonize non-believers.
it's is not brainwashing, it counts the same to you. you have been brainwashed by evolutionist, scientist and logical facts. you haven't gone out to explore, but you outer to believe a simple matter that does not resolve itself as a myth but a mysterious object. all we need to prove evolution is having intermediate sections of evolved pieces of fossils then that counts as evolution as imminent to avoid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJLethal View Post
Do you think I love my parents, wife, friends, animal companions any less than a religious person? Do you think I seek to cheat, murder etc? One of the major reasons I reject the bible is on moral grounds, in addition to scientific ones. The bible is a collection of some of the worst "god" sanctioned atrocities in written form. Even if I was blind to science, I could not abide by a doctrine that advocates genocide, infanticide, slavery, discrimination and the like.
the bible does not advocates violence and genocide, instead it interprets the history events, so that we can learn from these incidence that took place. the bible teaches to love you neighbour as you love yourself. you may not need the bible guidlines but a life without God, is a candle without light. Once again brainwashing is what we told on our daily basis, i can easily brain wash you, by easily saying thermal heat can be recycled, you might believe if i explain that fact to clarify my theory. but i personnally know that thermal heat can not be recycled, see your scientist are not sacred beings they are there to claim, there place, there money and there perception of science. it is a defence of one's belief.

Last edited by jackdonekings; 11-05-2008 at 03:23 AM..
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:34 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,557 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJLethal View Post
I responded to you and Moonsun in this post:
"Sorry folks, it's the same as the Old Testament. The overall documents are filled with self-appointed violence and elitism based on support from a god. The books are filled with insecurity, domination of women who are not treated equally, intolerance of homosexuals, instances of slavery, conversion to their respective religions at the point of a scimitar, etc.
so , you even didn't give yourself the chance to discuss with me your insight and convince me that my relegion is evil
i give you releiable discussion to exchange our views , then you sum it up with personal openion you allready have
what is benefits of your questions then

Quote:
We have seen this acted out throughout history, and even now. Religion is a source of conflict and war. For all the comfort it provides the adherent, based on an imaginary god, the world is not better off for it. At the very least, fundamentalists are woefully ignorant of science and facts. At the very worst, victims fall dead at the end of swords or exploding bombs."
is USA war against Iraq relegion's war ?
was the wars and conflicts between black and white relegion's war or ethnic's war?
i think that wars and conflicts are existed with relegion or without it

Quote:
This sums up your defense:

Me: [Surah 2:191] Kill them [non-Muslims] wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you

You: Drive them out of the places from which they drove you… do you find that unfair ? !!!

Notice how you ignored Kill them, non-Muslims, wherever you find them.

Kill them..who is them? Children? Women? Non-Muslims...Hitler did something to non-Aryans (according to his definition). Wherever you find them...all over? Or just the places they drove you? And who was there first?
i didn't ignore anything , i didn't need to
brother , why i coloured the last part of the verse by blue ?
in the fact i say to you that them refer to people whom drove the muslims out of thier homes
by the way islam prohibited muslims to kill women or chidren , it even prohibit them to destroy churches or any relegious places , islam prohibit us to even pulling out trees

Quote:
Your defense of the Koran is similar to Christian defenses of the Old Testament where all atrocities are explained away to translation, improper context, or God's holy will. Meanwhile, there are centuries of bloody history attributed to Islam, Christianity and Judaism. The root of the problem are the "holy" books and the evil (with some good mixed in) that is written.
no , christians abolish the old testament to be applied to christians , they didn't defend it at all
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:53 PM
 
418 posts, read 650,233 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdonekings View Post
.
hang on a minute an absence of belief? read back what i have written the definition of religion. a religion is not only described as an absence of God or belief, without belief then there is no logic to explain a fact of the universe.



Pluto is a dead planet or asteroid that people once believed to be a planet of our solar system, in which science itself has failed to prove under the circumstances of belief or fact. Some logic has failed to transfer, its reality. do i always have to believe scientist ever changing logics? if technology is ever changing then all scientist have not reached a perfection of understanding, most scientist usually continue where others left off to prove or clarify a theory.



it's is not brainwashing, it counts the same to you. you have been brainwashed by evolutionist, scientist and logical facts. you haven't gone out to explore, but you outer to believe a simple matter that does not resolve itself as a myth but a mysterious object. all we need to prove evolution is having intermediate sections of evolved pieces of fossils then that counts as evolution as imminent to avoid.



the bible does not advocates violence and genocide, instead it interprets the history events, so that we can learn from these incidence that took place. the bible teaches to love you neighbour as you love yourself. you may not need the bible guidlines but a life without God, is a candle without light. Once again brainwashing is what we told on our daily basis, i can easily brain wash you, by easily saying thermal heat can be recycled, you might believe if i explain that fact to clarify my theory. but i personnally know that thermal heat can not be recycled, see your scientist are not sacred beings they are there to claim, there place, there money and there perception of science. it is a defence of one's belief.
I really love the part where you say I've been brainwashed by facts. No elaboration needed there.

As to your "loving god", let me remind you of some biblical "love" which you can then say is being taken out of context, been translated wrong, or any of the other rote excuses that your people have been conditioned to reply with:

Leviticus 20:13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Exodus 21:20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Exodus 21:7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

Numbers 31:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people." 7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. So either Jesus was not with god in the beginning? Or Jesus was onboard with:

Beating slaves, killing women and children, raping virgins, killing homosexuals, genocide...

Yep, the biblegod is all heart isn't he.
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:57 PM
 
418 posts, read 650,233 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
so , you even didn't give yourself the chance to discuss with me your insight and convince me that my relegion is evil
i give you releiable discussion to exchange our views , then you sum it up with personal openion you allready have
what is benefits of your questions then


is USA war against Iraq relegion's war ?
was the wars and conflicts between black and white relegion's war or ethnic's war?
i think that wars and conflicts are existed with relegion or without it


i didn't ignore anything , i didn't need to
brother , why i coloured the last part of the verse by blue ?
in the fact i say to you that them refer to people whom drove the muslims out of thier homes
by the way islam prohibited muslims to kill women or chidren , it even prohibit them to destroy churches or any relegious places , islam prohibit us to even pulling out trees



no , christians abolish the old testament to be applied to christians , they didn't defend it at all
Elwill, I've said all I needed say in the previous post. Christianity is bad enough, though the Old Testament butchery is not being acted upon as much as the Koran is by some of the Islamic nations. These are two wicked faiths, based on two wicked books (OT+NT/Bible and the Koran.)
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:50 AM
 
Location: In my Mind
276 posts, read 625,044 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJLethal View Post
I really love the part where you say I've been brainwashed by facts. No elaboration needed there.

As to your "loving god", let me remind you of some biblical "love" which you can then say is being taken out of context, been translated wrong, or any of the other rote excuses that your people have been conditioned to reply with:

Leviticus 20:13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Exodus 21:20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Exodus 21:7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

Numbers 31:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people." 7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. So either Jesus was not with god in the beginning? Or Jesus was onboard with:

Beating slaves, killing women and children, raping virgins, killing homosexuals, genocide...

Yep, the biblegod is all heart isn't he.
you lack bible study, these are bible events and laws at the time. we all know about the violence in the medieval times and the laws where tough or injustice . i have come across people like you and most of them is either they studied the bible but never comprehended it, or read a few passages then have a pessimist view over it. we all have a free will here on earth, it's either believe or be doom.

like i said go and witness people dying at the hospital or meet a man with near death experience you will know who we dealing with.

a
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Old 11-07-2008, 08:19 AM
 
418 posts, read 650,233 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdonekings View Post
you lack bible study, these are bible events and laws at the time. we all know about the violence in the medieval times and the laws where tough or injustice . i have come across people like you and most of them is either they studied the bible but never comprehended it, or read a few passages then have a pessimist view over it. we all have a free will here on earth, it's either believe or be doom.

like i said go and witness people dying at the hospital or meet a man with near death experience you will know who we dealing with.

a
I have plenty of study. I just don't buy into the justifications that religious people do to make biblical faith palatable.

Humans are flawed, and I expect those kinds of atrocities from them, especially in our past. A perfect, loving biblegod should not be, yet "his" decrees are right in line with bronze age man.

Situations involving hospital deathbeds or NDE's are emotional to say the least, but you must also be able to separate emotion from facts. This is incredibly difficult to do for some, and it's understandable. Still, that is the task at hand.
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Old 11-08-2008, 03:02 PM
 
85 posts, read 215,290 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJLethal View Post

Doesn't sound too peaceful to me. Don't worry though, the bible is filled with similar passages, so I dislike Islam, Christianity and Judaism equally.
so.. till me how can you live with all that dislike inside you?
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Old 11-08-2008, 03:36 PM
 
418 posts, read 650,233 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by eihab View Post
so.. till me how can you live with all that dislike inside you?
I live just fine. I have overcome the sheeple mentality of society and have intellectual conversations with like minded individuals. I also enjoy assisting those who have never considered leaving the indoctrinated religious existence they've had all their lives until they began thinking for themselves.

I enjoy pushing for equal rights for all, even for religious people such as yourself.

I have goals and I achieve them.
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:52 PM
 
Location: In my Mind
276 posts, read 625,044 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJLethal View Post
I have plenty of study. I just don't buy into the justifications that religious people do to make biblical faith palatable.

Humans are flawed, and I expect those kinds of atrocities from them, especially in our past. A perfect, loving biblegod should not be, yet "his" decrees are right in line with bronze age man.

Situations involving hospital deathbeds or NDE's are emotional to say the least, but you must also be able to separate emotion from facts. This is incredibly difficult to do for some, and it's understandable. Still, that is the task at hand.
Moderator cut: personal remarksGod is wisdom and he is the creator of science. i have encountered so many people of different religion and i see the division of good and evil, it is not the man but the spirit that protrude insight our souls from within to be led astray. you as the man of your ship would let the enemy cross the line or follow the righteousness.'

remember one thing Catholicism involves, symbols, prayer to the dead purgatory and other, the followers where crusaders and they killed in the name of christianity, that is why some priest in catholic churches are corrupted. i on the other hand am a protestant a christian in the making and a scientist in physics.

'eph6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places .'

you know so little and this verse above is already happening even today visit Illuminati News: The Secret Order of the Illuminati (A Brief History of the Moriah and the Shadow Government) its not a bible but you will see a regime a powerful nature in the spiritual realm working over our top governments.

Last edited by Alpha8207; 11-12-2008 at 02:45 PM..
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:06 PM
 
1,563 posts, read 1,661,842 times
Reputation: 1046
Muslims are raised from birth to kill the infidel. At least they are in the middle east. This is a fact.

We will probably never be able to co-exist with them.
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