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Old 11-01-2008, 11:22 AM
 
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what do people think islamic faith is all about?
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Old 11-01-2008, 01:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serena nisha sattar View Post
what do people think islamic faith is all about?
At an intermediate glance, it seems similar to many others...control, power, violence, injustice, self-serving, domination, with some brief wise proverbs mixed in.
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Old 11-01-2008, 01:54 PM
 
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Islam is not a new religion, but the same truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people. For a fifth of the world's population, Islam is both a religion and a complete way of life. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the majority have nothing to do with the extremely grave events which have come to be associated with their faith.

Understanding Islam and the Muslims - What is Islam ?
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Old 11-01-2008, 02:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
Islam is not a new religion, but the same truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people. For a fifth of the world's population, Islam is both a religion and a complete way of life. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the majority have nothing to do with the extremely grave events which have come to be associated with their faith.

Understanding Islam and the Muslims - What is Islam ?
If Islam is about peace. mercy and forgiveness, why the need for passages such as these:

[Surah 2:191] Kill them [non-Muslims] wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you…
[Surah 8:38-39] Tell the unbelievers that if they mend their ways their past shall be forgiven; but if they persist in sin, let them reflect upon the fate of their forefathers. Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme.
[Surah 9:5] When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and pay the alms-tax, let them go their way. Allah is forgiving and merciful.
[Surah 9:73] Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their eternal home: an evil fate.
[Surah 9:121] Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you.
[Surah 47:4] When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
[Surah 66:9] Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate.

Doesn't sound too peaceful to me. Don't worry though, the bible is filled with similar passages, so I dislike Islam, Christianity and Judaism equally.
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Old 11-02-2008, 07:31 AM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,064,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJLethal View Post
If Islam is about peace. mercy and forgiveness, why the need for passages such as these:

[Surah 2:191] Kill them [non-Muslims] wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you…
[Surah 8:38-39] Tell the unbelievers that if they mend their ways their past shall be forgiven; but if they persist in sin, let them reflect upon the fate of their forefathers. Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme.
[Surah 9:5] When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and pay the alms-tax, let them go their way. Allah is forgiving and merciful.
[Surah 9:73] Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their eternal home: an evil fate.
[Surah 9:121] Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you.
[Surah 47:4] When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
[Surah 66:9] Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate.

Doesn't sound too peaceful to me. Don't worry though, the bible is filled with similar passages, so I dislike Islam, Christianity and Judaism equally.

the Quran contains 114 suras (chapters) and they have a total of 6236 verses ,
they deal with all the subjects which concern us as human beings.

6.38 There is not a moving (living) creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are
communities like you. We have neglected nothing in the Book, then unto their Lord they (all) shall be
gathered.

16.89 And (remember) the Day when We shall raise up from every nation a witness against them from
amongst themselves. And We shall bring you (O Muhammad SAW) as a witness against these. And We
have sent down to you the Book (the Qur'an) as an exposition of everything, a guidance, a mercy, and
glad tidings for those who have submitted themselves (to Allâh as Muslims).

the Qur'an contains a number of verse references which address states of war against transgressors
and it also contain so many verses regarding forgiveness and pardon

7.199 Keep to forgiveness (O Muhammad), and enjoin kindness, and turn away from the ignorant.

24.22 And let not those who possess dignity and ease among you swear not to give to the near of kin
and to the needy, and to fugitives for the cause of Allah. Let them forgive and show indulgence. Yearn
ye not that Allah may forgive you? Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

15.85 We created not the heavens, the earth, and all between them, but for just ends. And the Hour is surely coming (when this will be manifest). So overlook (any human faults) with gracious forgiveness.

16.126 If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. But if ye endure
patiently, verily it is better for the patient.

42.40 The guerdon of an ill-deed is an ill the like thereof. But whosoever pardoneth and amendeth, his
wage is the affair of Allah. Lo! He loveth not wrong-doers.

5.13 And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts.
They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished. Thou
wilt not cease to discover treachery from all save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them.
Lo! Allah loveth the kindly.



3:133 And vie one with another for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a paradise as wide as are the heavens and the earth, prepared for those who ward off (evil)

3:134 Those who spend (of that which Allah hath given them) in ease and in adversity, those who control their wrath and are forgiving toward mankind. Allah loveth the good.

3:135 And those who, when they do an evil thing or wrong themselves, remember Allah and implore forgiveness for their sins - Who forgiveth sins save Allah only? - and will not knowingly
repeat (the wrong) they did.

3:136 The reward of such will be forgiveness from their Lord, and Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever - a bountiful reward for workers!


and there are more

the quran is not only the source of islam but there is also the Hadith which is a reliably transmitted
report of what the Prophet said, did, or approved.

And there are more than tens of thousands of Hadith deal with all the subjects which concern us as human beings.
Most of them emphases and encourage for a nice attitude and noble behavior

Here are some of them

Smiling at your brother’s face is as charity

your removing of stones, thorns, and bones from people’s paths is charity

a person came to Allah,'s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said :
Who among the people is most deserving of a fine treatment from my hand ?
He said : Your mother.
He again said : Then who (is the next one) ?
He said: Again it is your mother
He said: Then who (is the next one) ?
He (the Holy Prophet) said : Again, it is your mother.
He (again) said: Then who?
Thereupon he said: Then it is your father.

Avoid suspicion, for suspicion is the gravest lie in talk and do not be inquisitive about one another and do not spy upon one another and do not feel envy with the other, and nurse no malice, and nurse no aversion and hostility against one another. And be fellow-brothers and servants of Allah.

None amongst you should point a weapon towards his brother, for he does not know that Satan might cause the weapon (to slip) from his hand and (he may injure anyone) and thus he may fall into Hell-Fire

He will not enter Paradise whose neighbor is not secure from his wrongful conduct.
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Old 11-02-2008, 10:10 AM
 
Location: egypt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJLethal View Post
If Islam is about peace. mercy and forgiveness, why the need for passages such as these:
peace concept not absolute value
if you need the peace for innocents , you should to be violent against crimers !!

when enemy drive me out my home , i can't just let them claiming that i'm peacefull man ,hence i will be coward , humble and weak not peacefull

if you disagree with me about my view for this word " peace" , you are wellcome to define yours



Quote:
[Surah 2:191] Kill them [non-Muslims] wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you…
do you find that unfair ? !!!


Quote:
[Surah 8:38-39] Tell the unbelievers that if they mend their ways their past shall be forgiven; but if they persist in sin, let them reflect upon the fate of their forefathers. Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme.
more accurate translation for the verse is
And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for God ; but if they desist, then surely God sees what they do.

i wonder why you didn't complete the verse !!! ( i know you didn't made it by yourself , just haters islam sites

anyway this verse preach to freedom of relegion
the verse dosn't say . "and relegion should be islam ", it sayes " and relegion should be only for God"
which mean that relegion ( any relegion ) will be for God , he is the only one who have right to accept it or refuse it in judgement day

Quote:
[Surah 9:5] When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and pay the alms-tax, let them go their way. Allah is forgiving and merciful.
This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them... (as quoted above).

read the verse from 1 to 10 , then you can understand it in it's context

Quote:
[Surah 9:73] Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their eternal home: an evil fate.
fake translation agian
it isn't make war on the believeres , it is
" O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

Quote:
[Surah 9:121] Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you.
As for Surah 9, aya 123, this must be understood in the light of a rule in tafsir known as the general which is meant to refer to the specific, which has many examples in the Qur'an. This aya for sure falls in that category, meaning that this does not apply to all non-Muslim neighbours all the time or under all circumstances.
The historical context was that early Muslims were surrounded by style and even aggressive neighbours, some were "People of the Book", others were idolatrous Arabs while others were pre-Islamic Persians. History recorded instances where some of them engaged not only in intimidation and threats against Muslims but also inciting murder and engaging actually in murderous acts. As such it was a matter of physical security of the emerging of the young Muslim community who had to abort the surrounding dangers through legitimate pre-emptive strikes.

Quote:

[Surah 47:4] When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
what do you think ?
should it be " when you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield give up and let them kill you "!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
[Surah 66:9] Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate.
the same fake in translation , brother
as in verse Surah 9:73

Last edited by elwill; 11-02-2008 at 10:21 AM..
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Old 11-02-2008, 10:31 AM
 
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Sorry folks, it's the same as the Old Testament. The overall documents are filled with self-appointed violence and elitism based on support from a god. The books are filled with insecurity, domination of women who are not treated equally, intolerance of homosexuals, instances of slavery, conversion to their respective religions at the point of a scimitar, etc.

We have seen this acted out throughout history, and even now. Religion is a source of conflict and war. For all the comfort it provides the adherent, based on an imaginary god, the world is not better off for it. At the very least, fundamentalists are woefully ignorant of science and facts. At the very worst, victims fall dead at the end of swords or exploding bombs.
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Old 11-03-2008, 04:09 AM
 
25,884 posts, read 39,178,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJLethal View Post
If Islam is about peace. mercy and forgiveness, why the need for passages such as these:

[Surah 2:191] Kill them [non-Muslims] wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you…
[Surah 8:38-39] Tell the unbelievers that if they mend their ways their past shall be forgiven; but if they persist in sin, let them reflect upon the fate of their forefathers. Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme.
[Surah 9:5] When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and pay the alms-tax, let them go their way. Allah is forgiving and merciful.
[Surah 9:73] Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their eternal home: an evil fate.
[Surah 9:121] Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you.
[Surah 47:4] When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
[Surah 66:9] Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate.

Doesn't sound too peaceful to me. Don't worry though, the bible is filled with similar passages, so I dislike Islam, Christianity and Judaism equally.
I agree with you but Chritians, and Jews are not raised by hating others but the learn to accept other faith and aren't teached to blow them self up or throw stones to people of another faith....just look at the video's that have been proven this to be true....very said, instead they should teach their kids some education.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:34 AM
 
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I don't think that Muslims are raised hating others; there are subsets of Muslims just as there are subsets of people claiming to be Christians who hate anyone who is different. I have listed to "good" Christian right wingers actually arguing that there is nothing wrong with genocide.

And I am sorry, but I think Jimmy Carter got it right calling Israel and apartheid state. What has happened to the Palestenians is abhorrent - taking away their land and giving it "back to" a population who had not lived there for over a thousand years [the post WWII formation of Israel] --- How woule YOU, as am American react if the UN came over and took all our land and gave it back to the Native Americans, then told them they could control our every movement?
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Old 11-03-2008, 02:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
I agree with you but Chritians, and Jews are not raised by hating others but the learn to accept other faith and aren't teached to blow them self up or throw stones to people of another faith....just look at the video's that have been proven this to be true....very said, instead they should teach their kids some education.
Christians have just evolved to a point where they don't actually kill people the way Old Testament Jews did. (Though it wasn't long ago we saw witch trials, The Crusades and the Inquisition.) They just think you will suffer eternal damnation if you don't join their club.

Orthodox Jews are another story. How can they be Orthodox if they are not adhering to their laws about killing homosexuals, adulterers, etc. Are they selectively Orthodox?
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