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Old 11-21-2008, 09:31 AM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,847 posts, read 30,349,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyliner View Post
I think it is very inconsistent of her to claim that she is fighting for women's freedom, yet has chosen to adhere to a very narrow religion that is hostile to any opposing view. Her religion, Islam (which theocratically controls many nations' governments), violates women's freedom by forcing them to dress according to their rule and wants them to be abused physically if they do not adhere to the rule. In many cases, extreme violence and murder (militant jihad) is upheld as the way to stamp out everyone who does not agree with their doctrine of Islam. If Americans think this is not real or that it will never happen here, we need to get our heads out of the sand and see what is happening in our own backyard. For more information, including video captured of women being beaten and arrested for not strictly adhering to the dress code, just watch the eye-opening new movie, 'The Third Jihad.' A freedom loving Muslim shares what is really going on, and the surprising amount of video footage showing radical Islamic ideology growing in America is shocking.

I posted something similar in another thread, with additional information about a woman who is speaking out against this intolerance.
You are misinformed. Muslim woman DESIRE to adhere to the dress code rule. It pleases them to do so. If they do not wish to do so and are shunned by their peers/community/religion that is their choice to make. Imagine if a friend of yours decided to run around naked with a feather duster up their butt. What would happen? Is our freedom "violated" because we are not at liberty to do this with impunity? You are looking at this from a Western point of view. I have known Muslims and I can tell you that their women are valued and respected MORE (yes more) than those in this country. Have you seen the way 10 year olds dress now days? They all look like little prostitutes because our society has pressured them into believing that the ONLY WORTH they have as women is SEXUAL WORTH. Look at movies, television, magazines. It's all about sex, being a sexual object.

And we have the temerity to criticize a religion who preaches honor, respect and chastity. Yes, perhaps their rules seem more harsh to us. But just like the strict parent, in the end, it is for the GREATER GOOD.

And extremist, militant groups are not representative of Islam any more than the KKK is representative of white America.

20yrsinBranson
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Greenville, S.C., USA
5,473 posts, read 13,655,409 times
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Where is the tolerance for any woman to disagree? If she will be beaten at the outset for turning away from the religious ideology, for any reason, I wonder how much worse it would be if she is able to escape the initial abuse. This coming from Islam, a religion that you claim honors its women. Please tell me where Christ ordered or practiced such violence. The only choice people in Islamic theocratic countries have is to either be a devout Muslim or suffer at the hand of the government and its many supporters. That does not even come close to the definition of true tolerance.

Militant, jihadist ideology may not be representative of Islam as a whole (although there is a subtle cultural jihad already happening in the West), but it is very real, has its roots in the same scripture, and is growing at an alarming rate across the globe, including here in the U.S. Watch that movie.
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Texas
35,225 posts, read 19,277,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by souhilo1 View Post
The New Symbol of Women’s Liberation
By Sara Bokker

I am an American woman who was born in the midst of America’s “Heartland.”I grew up, just like any other girl, being fixated with the glamour of life in “the big city.”Eventually, I moved to Florida and on to South Beach of Miami, a hotspot for those seeking the “glamorous life.”Naturally, I did what most average Western girls do.I focused on my appearance and appeal, basing my self-worth on how much attention I got from others.I worked out religiously and became a personal trainer, acquired an upscale waterfront residence, became a regular “exhibiting” beach-goer and was able to attain a “living-in-style” kind of life.
Why I Shed Bikini For Niqab (http://www.55a.net/firas/english/?page=show_det&id=305 - broken link)

Different strokes and all that. Do your thing, darlin'. Too bad your adopted faith doesn't take the same attitude, though.
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Old 11-21-2008, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
609 posts, read 1,063,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
You are misinformed. Muslim woman DESIRE to adhere to the dress code rule. It pleases them to do so. If they do not wish to do so and are shunned by their peers/community/religion that is their choice to make.
they "Desire: it because they are told that is waht to want. they are told that if they disobey they will be beat, or if they dont dress "properly" bad things will happen. Ill agree that these women "want to folllow the dress code rule" jsut as feverently as any German in Nazi Germany "desired to follow the fuhrer no matter what. All this means is that very good propaganda is being used, as wlel as a very severe and strict religious code that does not accept dissenters.

Leave their community?!?!?!?! in this society, if a women is onyl worth as much as the man she marries. Women dont work in some of these countries! Women cant even legally drive in saudi arabia!! telling a muslim women "oh she could just leave" is like telling an abused women in the US with no where to go and no money "oh jsut leave your husband.. worse actually, cause the women in thsoe countries rely almost 100 economically and sociall on thier man..


Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Imagine if a friend of yours decided to run around naked with a feather duster up their butt. What would happen? Is our freedom "violated" because we are not at liberty to do this with impunity? You are looking at this from a Western point of view. I have known Muslims and I can tell you that their women are valued and respected MORE (yes more) than those in this country. Have you seen the way 10 year olds dress now days? They all look like little prostitutes because our society has pressured them into believing that the ONLY WORTH they have as women is SEXUAL WORTH. Look at movies, television, magazines. It's all about sex, being a sexual object.

no restricting it isnt a violation of human rights by canadain standards anyways. rights can be legally restricted i its in good reason. For ex a teacher in Canada was teaching the holocaust never happened and the jews are trying to dominate. The supreme court decided it was reasonable to restrict his right of freedom of speech (which he claimed was being violated) because of the laws he was breaking and infringing on others rights.

and for your second part would you rather live in an immoral society where everyone is free? or a "moral society" (according to the strict islamic laws) thats run like the new 4th Reich??? that discourages difference, promotes religious intolerance as well as old conservative values based on nothing more then religious fanaticism??

look I know your going to attack the Christian right cause that is what some describe them as. however the christian right, are nowhere near the same level as the extremists

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
And we have the temerity to criticize a religion who preaches honor, respect and chastity. Yes, perhaps their rules seem more harsh to us. But just like the strict parent, in the end, it is for the GREATER GOOD.
Greater good says you!! Thier strict rules parrelel to fascist dictatorship. why do you think they havent made as big a jump culturally when comapred to other civilizations? Oh the muslim empires certianly did, but that was at a time when they were open, and even allowed christians to live with them unpersecuted. diversity of thought is what moves things forward, thats a fact


Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
And extremist, militant groups are not representative of Islam any more than the KKK is representative of white America.[20yrsinBranson
umm extremist muslim groups are widespread and have huge numbers. jsut looka t any of the strict msulim countries?? all of them militant? no. extremist probably.

The KKK has how many followers?? last i checked the number was around 5000????? wow.. the september 11th atack alone would ahve wiped out half the clan... so please dont tell me that the KKK can even be compared to extremists in number and power.

Both are a joke and losers. but one is a small minimal threat, the other large.

what you dont understand is tha tthe majority of muslims live in countries I woudl label extreme. female circumcision, death penalty for gays and people who cheat, widespread oppression of women, innacceptance for difference of opinion or religion ect. there are many more and most muslim countries have 2 or more of these.. tahts extremist in my opinion
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:09 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,847 posts, read 30,349,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leangk View Post
what you dont understand is tha tthe majority of muslims live in countries I woudl label extreme. female circumcision, death penalty for gays and people who cheat, widespread oppression of women, innacceptance for difference of opinion or religion ect. there are many more and most muslim countries have 2 or more of these.. tahts extremist in my opinion
And do you know all of this as a personal fact because you have experienced it for yourself or because Glen Beck, or the likes of him have told you?

Your words are nothing more than you repeating things that you have heard or read (probably online, of all places) and that you have no personal knowledge of.

Although I have not personally lived in a Muslim country, I have had Muslim friends and I have had long, meaningful discussions with them and feel that I have a fundamental grasp of what it's all about. And although your beliefs may be widely held, they are not necessarily correct. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact.

20yrsinBranson
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
609 posts, read 1,063,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
And do you know all of this as a personal fact because you have experienced it for yourself or because Glen Beck, or the likes of him have told you?

Your words are nothing more than you repeating things that you have heard or read (probably online, of all places) and that you have no personal knowledge of.

Although I have not personally lived in a Muslim country, I have had Muslim friends and I have had long, meaningful discussions with them and feel that I have a fundamental grasp of what it's all about. And although your beliefs may be widely held, they are not necessarily correct. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact.

20yrsinBranson
i know this because some of my teachers went to middle eastern schools. My H went to Saudi arabia, adn told me about the firday "chop block" and about the religious police telling him to tell his wife to "cover up"

look, go on the internet, go to studies done by the UN, unbiased groups anyone. and look the msulim countries. it is a fact that they kill gays, alduterers and drug users.. my teacher saw it, you cant deny it. you also cant deny it when you look at the educaiton women recieve in most, not all, but most of these countries..


please I know your a muslim k, and your trying to defend it, but your just as brainwashed and the women who wrote the article.
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:07 PM
 
500 posts, read 636,107 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
You are misinformed. Muslim woman DESIRE to adhere to the dress code rule. It pleases them to do so. If they do not wish to do so and are shunned by their peers/community/religion that is their choice to make.
Is it really a “desire” when the result of not adhering to the “dress code” is to be shunned by your peers/community/religion? It has nothing to do with desire; it’s their culture. By the way, those who dare not to adhere to the dress code (because God forbid a woman might think for herself) will be severely punished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Imagine if a friend of yours decided to run around naked with a feather duster up their butt. What would happen? Is our freedom "violated" because we are not at liberty to do this with impunity?
First I would laugh, take pictures, and send them to our friends. Of course my freedom isn’t violated, but I wont shun him because he decided to dress a certain way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
You are looking at this from a Western point of view
Since some Muslims are exercising their culture which includes wrapping women, then yeah, I have the right to view from a Western point of view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
I have known Muslims and I can tell you that their women are valued and respected MORE (yes more) than those in this country
If being wrapped in a bed sheet means respect, then hey, more power to you. You do realize that some Islamic nations are terrified of the idea of an independent woman, right? Men there are scared of educated women, women that drive a vehicle, a workingwoman. In the court of law, women testimony equals half of men’s testimonies, so you need two women to equal one man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Have you seen the way 10 year olds dress now days? They all look like little prostitutes because our society has pressured them into believing that the ONLY WORTH they have as women is SEXUAL WORTH. Look at movies, television, magazines. It's all about sex, being a sexual object
Ahh yeah, the ole let’s blame everybody but you. I hope you don’t have a 10year old, or even a niece, I’d really hate to see her face while you’re busy labeling her as a prostitute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
And we have the temerity to criticize a religion who preaches honor, respect and chastity.
Good lord…are we talking about the honor to beat your daughter to death because she didn’t wear her mummy suit? The honor of beating your daughter to death because she’s dating a non-Muslim? The honor to treat women worse than many Americans treat their pets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Yes, perhaps their rules seem more harsh to us. But just like the strict parent, in the end, it is for the GREATER GOOD.
You say more harsh, I say uncivilized and barbaric. And these types of behaviors don’t sit well in the West, especially with women. Western women move forward, NOT backward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Yes And do you know all of this as a personal fact because you have experienced it for yourself or because Glen Beck, or the likes of him have told you?
Since you’re criticizing people’s news sources, I’m curious as where you get yours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Your words are nothing more than you repeating things that you have heard or read (probably online, of all places) and that you have no personal knowledge of.

Although I have not personally lived in a Muslim country, I have had Muslim friends and I have had long, meaningful discussions with them and feel that I have a fundamental grasp of what it's all about. And although your beliefs may be widely held, they are not necessarily correct. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact.
And as a person that lived in two Islamic countries, I can tell you with confidant, that your beliefs are skewed. You can have all the discussions you want with your Muslim friends, I’ve experienced it , and let me tell you, I’m glad I’m not a woman.
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,369,507 times
Reputation: 3735
Default Ohhh golly... where's the mod when you need him/her?

....or June7 when we desp. need some "goosing"? May I suggest: as prev. noted, the OP is either a poli-plant, or this woman's convinced that suppression equals love or that the opposite of our mini-hooker social styles of late are best attended by the diametrical opposite, complete with beatings for mis-behaviour.

At any rate, leangk, you might want to calm yourself. And moderator (and I know this is too arrogant of me, but...) can we stick a fork in this one too?

If not, I'll just sit back and watch for a bit to see if it all straightens itelf out.

And praise Allah for his wisdom....
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:16 PM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,653,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b. frank View Post
OK, well, cheery-o then.
Oh, Us Americans, This was !!
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
609 posts, read 1,063,798 times
Reputation: 173
20yrs, its funny how you use the word "desire" almsot as if it means "forced" or "had no other choice". when your in a society telling you "wearing this is the only correct way" or else you get punished, of course you "have no other choice"..

i know how the muslim philosophy works k.. its one that uses human freedom with the "will of god" interchangably as well. for example saying "I did it to be more pleasing to Allah" that actually means, my family and friends suggested it or my husbands said its good and my society expects it so...

thank god most christians dont take the bible so literally like these lunatics. but then again thats waht a moderate religion is in my opinion. one that understands that even thier hold ltierature is subjegated to old fashion fears and predjudice such as gays and even a tiny bit about women (although jesus for 2000 years ago was completely revolutionary in his treatment of woemn, the poor and the different), but the old testemant certainly has alot of crap in it.
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