U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-03-2012, 10:22 AM
 
1,884 posts, read 1,656,133 times
Reputation: 115

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Dr Miller is a convert to Islam. You can't really expect him to give an unbiased opinion..
it is not fair you judge him before you see what he said
at least you could judge about the scientific information that he explored and that has no relation with the bible

for example read what he said about The Female Bee.

and you remind me about a story happened at the beginning of the message of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) .

the people of the Prophet who did not believe in him they used to destroy his reputation for any new person come to makkah and they program his brain in order to ignore the Prophet and not to listen him.

and one day a smart famous Poet came to Makkah and the non believers recieved him and programed his brain against the Prophet until he put something in his ears to avoid hearing the Prophet .

the after some time he felt Ridiculous and said to him self i am smart and i can distinguish between the good and the bad .
he removed the things from his ears and talked to the Prophet and heard him and he knew it is good and became muslim.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-04-2012, 04:50 AM
 
762 posts, read 989,343 times
Reputation: 221
Actually I did read it, but what does it prove? As said there was a fifty fifty chance of guessing the right answer. Bees were around thousands of years before the Quran was even thought about. There are numerous references to them in the Bible. They were used in ancient Egypt, and the Egyptians certainly knew all about the life cycle of the honey bee.

To suggest the wildly held viewpoint of the world on bees, based on a Shakespeare play is quite frankly ridiculous. It's not like the Quran goes into any great detail nor even does your dear Dr. Most of what we know today as fact, is implied it was known in the Quran, but at best the passages are ambiguous. It's easy when we know something for fact and look at a passage written thousand years ago to say.."Oh yes, of course that's what it means"

Not really conclusive of any advanced scientific knowledge of the time, any more then the embryology theory. Especially when you have all the scientific principles discovered by the ancient Greeks to refer to.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-04-2012, 12:04 PM
 
1,884 posts, read 1,656,133 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Actually I did read it, but what does it prove? As said there was a fifty fifty chance of guessing the right answer.

here is what i want to say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i agree with your logic
"book got something right and it was written 1400 years ago does not make the entire book correct" .

but , do you know about possibilities ? it's mathematical concept .

i will agree with you that existence of one or two or even 10 correct verses(scientifically) dosn't necessery to prove divinity of quran

but what about if this book is full with scientific concepts , from evey kind you can imagine of sciences [Medical , physics , anatomy , universe , genetics , biology , astronomy , marine life , zoology , Botany , poetry , historically and numeric ....... etc] and 100% of these verses are correct scientifically

all of that came by illiterate man , lived in desert among pagans who claimed about himself to be prophet and quran is God's word not him......

do you know that there is verse in quran , God sweared by the position of stars
the verse says
And I swear by the stars' positions-and that is a mighty oath if you(people) only knew. (Qur'an, 56:75-76)

why he didn't swear by just stars ? why he specify the position of the stars to be more greatest ?
focus on this scentific informations

when a star consumes all its fuel collapses in on itself, eventually turning into a black hole with infinite density and zero volume and an immensely powerful magnetic field. We are unable to see black holes even with the most powerful telescope, because their gravitational pull is so strong that light is unable to escape from them. However, such a collapsed star can be perceived by means of the effect it has on the surrounding area.

my point is
the stars we see in the sky by our eyes not really the stars it self , we just preceived it by means of the effect it has on the surrounding area
which means that we don't know the position of the stars(black holes) even by most powerfull telescope because the light unable to escape from gravitational pull

why in the world , man autherize a book and claims it's divinity then swear by the star's position and comment on this oath as to be mighty oath !!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-04-2012, 02:54 PM
 
762 posts, read 989,343 times
Reputation: 221
Dunno...beats me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-04-2012, 09:55 PM
 
1,884 posts, read 1,656,133 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
Dunno...beats me.

the right thing always win at the end even if the falsehood was at the top in the start.
He sends down water (rain) from the sky, and the valleys flow according to their measure, but the flood bears away the foam that mounts up to the surface
and (also) from that (ore) which they heat in the fire in order to make ornaments or utensils, rises a foam like unto it,
thus does Allah (by parables) show forth truth and falsehood .
Then, as for the foam it passes away as scum upon the banks, while that which is for the good of mankind remains in the earth.
Thus Allah sets forth parables (for the truth and falsehood, i.e. Belief and disbelief). The Noble Quran.


Last edited by truth_teller; 11-04-2012 at 10:26 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2012, 02:46 PM
 
762 posts, read 989,343 times
Reputation: 221
The Quran takes natural phenomenon and turns it into some kind of miraculous prophecy from Allah. Many things you feel that are miraculous scientific discoveries were known to mankind before the Quran. It never seizes to amaze me that Muslims choose not to see such facts.

God is the creator of the universe we inhabit and all we are, that includes our intelligence and free will. Does God wish for his greatest creation ~ mankind ~ to be just mindless slaves. If God wished this why would he have blessed us with the gifts of intelligence and free will and the human need to seek enlightenment and forever strive to be better. God does not need our worship..God is aware of his greatness. After all if he was a narcissistic God we could have all been created with a default setting to bow to his will in all things, and everyone would believe and accept unconditionally that God is what he is. Instead we are free to find our own way to his love, we offer prayers and worship out of love for God and thankfulness of our many blessings.

There is no compulsion in faith. We have free choice to accept Gods grace or refuse it, but even when we refuse it, I don't believe God ever gives up on us. Not sure if Allah offers the same.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2012, 07:20 AM
 
1,884 posts, read 1,656,133 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
The Quran takes natural phenomenon and turns it into some kind of miraculous prophecy from Allah. Many things you feel that are miraculous scientific discoveries were known to mankind before the Quran. It never seizes to amaze me that Muslims choose not to see such facts..
that was not a kind of miraculous prophecy but it was a parables for the truth and falsehood.


Quote:
Does God wish for his greatest creation ~ mankind ~ to be just mindless slaves

it is a great honor to be a slave for Allah.

we are free , we are not slave to any one other than Allah.

Quote:
God does not need our worship
Allah does not need our worship and if all the people since Adam were not believers it would not cause any thing for Allah,

Allah does not need us but we need him

The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said,
Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, said:
My servants, I have made oppression unlawful for Me and unlawful for you, so do not commit oppression against one another.
My servants, all of you are liable to err except one whom I guide on the right path, so seek right guidance from Me so that I should direct you to the right path.
O My servants, all of you are hungry (needy) except one whom I feed, so beg food from Me, so that I may give that to you.
O My servants, all of you are naked (need clothes) except one whom I provide garments, so beg clothes from Me, so that I should clothe you.
O My servants, you commit error night and day and I am there to pardon your sins, so beg pardon from Me so that I should grant you pardon.
O My servants, you can neither do Me any harm nor can you do Me any good.

O My servants, even if the first amongst you and the last amongst you and even the whole of human race of yours, and that of jinns even, become (equal in) God-conscious like the heart of a single person amongst you, nothing would add to My Power.

O My servants, even if the first amongst you and the last amongst you and the whole human race of yours and that of the jinns too in unison become the most wicked (all beating) like the heart of a single person, it would cause no loss to My Power.

O My servants, even if the first amongst you and the last amongst you and the whole human race of yours and that of jinns also all stand in one plain ground and you ask Me and I confer upon every person what he asks for, it would not. in any way, cause any loss to Me (even less) than that which is caused to the ocean by dipping the needle in it.

My servants, these for you I shall reward you for thern, so he who deeds of yours which I am recording finds good should praise Allah and he who does not find that should not blame anyone but his ownself.

Sa'id said that when Abu Idris Khaulini narrated this hadith he knelt upon his knees.



Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2012, 09:11 AM
 
762 posts, read 989,343 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Allah, the Exalted and Glorious: said, My servants, I have made oppression unlawful for Me and unlawful for you, so do not commit oppression against one another.
According to Mohammed these words are said by Allah..to his servants. Did Mohammed consider himself a servant of Allah? Or did he consider himself above this? Because Mohammed oppressed and enslaved many people during his lifetime, how then did he square his behaviour with Allah.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2012, 09:16 AM
 
762 posts, read 989,343 times
Reputation: 221
In Islam the relationship you seek with God/Allah does seem more akin to master/slave.

Whereas Christians see their relationship with God as a community of family, God is our wise and loving Father and we are his children. This we gained through Christ who taught us that God loves us as we love him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2012, 12:37 PM
 
1,884 posts, read 1,656,133 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefol View Post
According to Mohammed these words are said by Allah..to his servants.
Did Mohammed consider himself a servant of Allah? .
yes this type of Hadit is called Sacred Hadith

yes Mohammed is a servant of Allah .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top