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Old 01-07-2009, 04:42 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,348 times
Reputation: 161

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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
No civilized person calls another person evil or threatens that God will punish them because they are of another religion or because they mock the religion. Islam does.
really?
i read before , or may be i saw it in youtube that some group of christians tried to kill group of jews with shouting over them that they killed jesus !!!!!!!
guess what ? brave muslim saved those jews
may be i will try to find for you if you want

anyway , as long as you are talking about moke of the relegion
where in the world muslims moke relegions in thier movies or in thier newspaper ???
unfortunatly , this is the morality of christians not muslims
then when you complain , you blame the anger of minority of muslims , why i can't find anyone blame the behaviour of christianse in the first place ?

Quote:
There is not much that I know of as cruel as Sharia law which is the interpretation of the Koran by supposedly wise old men.
bring what you didn't like in shariah to discussion
but try to get for me somthing from quran and sunnah not something from the news

Quote:
Surely you must know that it is Sharia and the countries that follow it that people find so horrible, and Sharia is supposed to be totally following the will of God.
actually , who follow shariah themself dosn't complain , i always find those people whom outside of shariah law (someone as you ) complain from it

may be they didn't understand shariah law as we do

Quote:
I am surprised that you are shocked at all of this.
We know them by their fruits.
If a religion inspires and creates cruelty, then there is something wrong with that religion to my mind.
as the fruits of america and israil or the fruits of crusader or vatican


Quote:
Christianity used to behave badly, but it changed.
It is time for Islam, too, to prove itself worthy of taking a place next to other religions and cast off and disown the violence perpetrated in its name.
who changed it ? is it possible that every generation can change the relegion of christianity according to thier desires ???
will it still the same relegion which jesus (pbuh) preached ?

in islam , muslims may be changing but relegion of islam will never changed
islam means submission , if we change anything in the relegion , we lose the name of it

by the way , muslims allready condemn these crimes which happenes in the name of relegion , this subject is a little example


Quote:
Frankly, I think the problem is because Christianity is not an official part of government in most countries, so when the country is wrong people feel much more freedom to criticize.

In Islam the religion dictates everything, including the law and commerce. So in such countries people often have no recourse and if they disagree with the government their enemies are not coaxed into civil discourse, the conversation can easily become heated and the person condemned because they are not defying man's law, but God's.
yes i agree with you

do you have doubts that majority of muslims satisfied with shariah laws ?
becuse i will mention the democracy hear

Quote:
From most posts here, it seems that people from Islamic cultures have a sincere difficulty in understanding the separation of church and state, that the laws of a country can and often should, be changed.
That a person can be a member of most religions and not agree with everything that religion teaches. That a person can live freely in a society and choose not to be a member of any religion at all and still be respected. That even people who are religious, most of them, do not believe that theirs is the only religion, that all others of different faiths will be destroyed, that those who criticize the religion are necessarily ungodly and should be destroyed and threatened.
from most of posts here , it seems to me that people from unislamic culture have sincere difficulty in understanding what shariah law is all about
they don't understand that shariah laws have nothing to do according to other relegions , under shariah law freedom of relegion is necessary .
shariah laws not distinguish between muslims and others , it protects both of them and punishments are subjected to crimers of both of them

Quote:
For goodness' sake, what OTHER religion in modern days, has RELIGIOUS leaders placing fatwas on people, calling for all good Muslims to kill them? How can people, if they have freedom of choice, stay in such a religion?
quote for me this fatwa please

Quote:
Wives are under no obligation to agree with their husbands. Children can tell their parents that they are wrong and await the time when they are old enough to be free of them. And sometimes those kids are right, the parents are clods. Women marry and divorce whom they choose. They drive. They do not require escorts. They dress pretty much as they please. Men are forced to deal with their own sexual problems rather than dictate that women must cover themselves.
you prove for me that you don't know shariah
for example
arabia prohibit women to drive ! , but it isn't issue in shariah laws , i think that arabia is the only muslim country have this law

obligation of wives to agree with thier husband is moral issue not shariah law issue , the same with her dress and covered themselfs , all these things are moral teachings , there are no punishments under shariah law for these acts by government
but may be some countries imposed it in thier people , other countries don't .


Quote:
Again, it is the fruits of Islam that we react to. The way it is interpreted under Sharia, and not only that there are nasty things in the Koran.
as ?



Quote:
Punishing the victims of rape seems to happen in these countries on a fairly regular basis. I think it is to discourage people from reporting rapes because a good religious country should not be having such things to happen. The idea that women should be covered and escorted implies to me that these men are emotionally immature and have no self control.
i think that i respond to that
learn first what is the shariah law from islamic source then come here with your results for discussion
again , these practices have nothing to do with islam nor shariah law
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Old 01-07-2009, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,874 posts, read 31,747,081 times
Reputation: 12621
Death Fatwas in Egypt.

Daily News Egypt, September 30, 2008
Over the past two weeks there has been an unprecedented flurry of religious edicts, sanctioning killing. It seems that Arab societies are at the threshold of a dark stage of religious thinking in the Arab world.
Sheikh Saleh Al-Luhaidan, head of the Supreme Judicial Council in Saudi Arabia, has sanctioned the killing of the owners of satellite channels. A few days later, Sheikh Ibn-Jebreen, who was a member of the Directorate of Religious Research, Islamic Legal Rulings, and Islamic Propagation and Guidance, said that journalists and writers critical of religious scholars must be lashed.
Interestingly, a Saudi Sheikh has recently issued an edict sanctioning the execution of "Mickey Mouse". We may even hear in the future of a fatwa permitting the killing of those who drink orange juice.

Daily News Egypt - Full Article (http://dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=16773 - broken link)

Sounds a bit harsh to me.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,256,313 times
Reputation: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
really?
i read before , or may be i saw it in youtube that some group of christians tried to kill group of jews with shouting over them that they killed jesus !!!!!!!
guess what ? brave muslim saved those jews
may be i will try to find for you if you want

anyway , as long as you are talking about moke of the relegion
where in the world muslims moke relegions in thier movies or in thier newspaper ???
unfortunatly , this is the morality of christians not muslims
then when you complain , you blame the anger of minority of muslims , why i can't find anyone blame the behaviour of christianse in the first place ?


bring what you didn't like in shariah to discussion
but try to get for me somthing from quran and sunnah not something from the news


actually , who follow shariah themself dosn't complain , i always find those people whom outside of shariah law (someone as you ) complain from it

may be they didn't understand shariah law as we do


as the fruits of america and israil or the fruits of crusader or vatican



who changed it ? is it possible that every generation can change the relegion of christianity according to thier desires ???
will it still the same relegion which jesus (pbuh) preached ?

in islam , muslims may be changing but relegion of islam will never changed
islam means submission , if we change anything in the relegion , we lose the name of it

by the way , muslims allready condemn these crimes which happenes in the name of relegion , this subject is a little example



yes i agree with you

do you have doubts that majority of muslims satisfied with shariah laws ?
becuse i will mention the democracy hear


from most of posts here , it seems to me that people from unislamic culture have sincere difficulty in understanding what shariah law is all about
they don't understand that shariah laws have nothing to do according to other relegions , under shariah law freedom of relegion is necessary .
shariah laws not distinguish between muslims and others , it protects both of them and punishments are subjected to crimers of both of them


quote for me this fatwa please


you prove for me that you don't know shariah
for example
arabia prohibit women to drive ! , but it isn't issue in shariah laws , i think that arabia is the only muslim country have this law


obligation of wives to agree with thier husband is moral issue not shariah law issue , the same with her dress and covered themselfs , all these things are moral teachings , there are no punishments under shariah law for these acts by government
but may be some countries imposed it in thier people , other countries don't .



as ?


i think that i respond to that
learn first what is the shariah law from islamic source then come here with your results for discussion
again , these practices have nothing to do with islam nor shariah law
Here are some specific issues that I have.

Islamic marriage is a contract between a man and a woman. In the broadest of terms, the husband pledges to support his wife in exchange for her obedience, Women can demand certain rights by writing them into the marriage contract, but the man is the head of the family, and traditionally, a wife may not act against her husband's wishes. (The Quran permits men to use physical force against disobedient wives in some circumstances, Powers says.) Traditional practices still have significant impact on modern law: in Yemen and other nations, a woman cannot work if her husband expressly forbids it. In Syria, a wife can work without her husband's consent, if she renounces her claim on him for financial support. Undersharia, a Muslim woman cannot be married legally to a non-Muslim man, but a Muslim man can be married to a non-Muslim woman. Marriages can traditionally take place at young ages--in Iran, the age of consent is 13 for females and 15 for males, and younger with a court's permission. In Yemen, the minimum marriage age is 15.

Under sharia, the husband has the unilateral right to divorce his wife without cause. He can accomplish this by uttering the phrase "I divorce you" three times over the course of three months. If he does divorce her, he must pay her a sum of money agreed to before the wedding in the marriage contract and permit her to keep her dowry, Powers says. Classical sharia lays out very limited conditions under which a woman can divorce a man--he must be infertile at the time of marriage; insane; or have leprosy or another contagious skin disease. Most Islamic nations, including Egypt and Iran, now allow women to sue for divorce for many other reasons, including the failure to provide financial support.

The traditional punishment for Islamic apostasy--leaving Islam for another religion or otherwise abandoning the Islamic faith--is death. "Many modern Islamic nations say they guarantee freedom of religion. But this does not necessarily include the right to speak openly against Islam and act on those ideas." Conversions from Islam to other religions are generally not permitted in Muslim countries.

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Execution of a teenage girl
The girl in this report was hanged in the city square in Neka, Iran for "crimes against chastity"......she was just 16.

Many things about Sharia Law are not fair and they are inhumane.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:44 PM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,063,858 times
Reputation: 91

YouTube - Killing Mickey Mouse: Sheikh Al-Munajid Responds
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,874 posts, read 31,747,081 times
Reputation: 12621
Yeah?...Well take this... I guess this passes for children's entertainment, huh?

YouTube - Israeli kill Hamas Mickey Mouse


YouTube - Hamas Rabbit eat Jews


YouTube - Hamas children show teaches: Jews are murderers

And you claim that you do not mock other religions
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:32 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,348 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Death Fatwas in Egypt.

Daily News Egypt, September 30, 2008
Over the past two weeks there has been an unprecedented flurry of religious edicts, sanctioning killing. It seems that Arab societies are at the threshold of a dark stage of religious thinking in the Arab world.
Sheikh Saleh Al-Luhaidan, head of the Supreme Judicial Council in Saudi Arabia, has sanctioned the killing of the owners of satellite channels.
thank you very much for your share
i read your article and searched about these fatwas from it's sources in arabic language , and i have some remarks

firstly , it was fatwa from suidia not egypt
secondly , this fatwa forwarded to those whom broadcast sexual materials in thier channel inside arabia suidia ( not mentioned in your english article , right !!!!!!! ) .
thirdly , it was suggestion for thier local laws to prohibit these things in their country
fourth , he legalize it ( he think that they deserve that ) , he didn't say that it's commands of God and he didn't say that it's obligatory for muslims .

he didn't say that it's shariah law
you consider that any laws in muslims countries are shariah , that's wrong .

shariah issues is very specific , other issues are leaved to the governers to decide it according to thier view

Quote:
A few days later, Sheikh Ibn-Jebreen, who was a member of the Directorate of Religious Research, Islamic Legal Rulings, and Islamic Propagation and Guidance, said that journalists and writers critical of religious scholars must be lashed.
again it isn't divine decesion ( which mean it isn't shariah ) .
it was personal openion for specific purposes
he want to unite the muslims , he want to spread the respect toward scientist of islam
he have a target , and this is the means to accomplish his target ( in his view)


Quote:
We may even hear in the future of a fatwa permitting the killing of those who drink orange juice.

may be , if they imported it from israil whom killing our neighbors in phalstine
(but it will still not issue from shariah law )


golden grain said to me in this subject
Quote:
From most posts here, it seems that people from Islamic cultures have a sincere difficulty in understanding the separation of church and state, that the laws of a country can and often should, be changed.

most of these issues you guys raises against islam actually is regional issues , you can consider it under those laws which can be changed .

if you wanna to criticize islam bring somthing from quran and sunnah because muslims are agreed with these issues exists in quran and sunnah

peace
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:35 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,635 posts, read 74,577,828 times
Reputation: 48121
violence is very much part of the mideast. i am not sure if it would be any different if they were non muslim. the history of war in the region goes back way before islam.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:53 AM
 
40,037 posts, read 26,715,004 times
Reputation: 6047
The short answer to the OP is . . . because the only ones doing it today are Muslims in Islamic countries.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:04 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,348 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
Here are some specific issues that I have.

Islamic marriage is a contract between a man and a woman. In the broadest of terms, the husband pledges to support his wife in exchange for her obedience, Women can demand certain rights by writing them into the marriage contract, but the man is the head of the family, and traditionally, a wife may not act against her husband's wishes. (The Quran permits men to use physical force against disobedient wives in some circumstances, Powers says.) Traditional practices still have significant impact on modern law: in Yemen and other nations, a woman cannot work if her husband expressly forbids it. In Syria, a wife can work without her husband's consent, if she renounces her claim on him for financial support. Undersharia, a Muslim woman cannot be married legally to a non-Muslim man, but a Muslim man can be married to a non-Muslim woman. Marriages can traditionally take place at young ages--in Iran, the age of consent is 13 for females and 15 for males, and younger with a court's permission. In Yemen, the minimum marriage age is 15.


Under sharia, the husband has the unilateral right to divorce his wife without cause. He can accomplish this by uttering the phrase "I divorce you" three times over the course of three months. If he does divorce her, he must pay her a sum of money agreed to before the wedding in the marriage contract and permit her to keep her dowry, Powers says. Classical sharia lays out very limited conditions under which a woman can divorce a man--he must be infertile at the time of marriage; insane; or have leprosy or another contagious skin disease. Most Islamic nations, including Egypt and Iran, now allow women to sue for divorce for many other reasons, including the failure to provide financial support.

The traditional punishment for Islamic apostasy--leaving Islam for another religion or otherwise abandoning the Islamic faith--is death. "Many modern Islamic nations say they guarantee freedom of religion. But this does not necessarily include the right to speak openly against Islam and act on those ideas." Conversions from Islam to other religions are generally not permitted in Muslim countries.

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Execution of a teenage girl
The girl in this report was hanged in the city square in Neka, Iran for "crimes against chastity"......she was just 16.

Many things about Sharia Law are not fair and they are inhumane.
first of all , i asked you to bring for me something from quran and sunnah (somthing not regional , somthing we can find all muslims agreed with )

second , you mentioned the relation between man and woman under islam , but actaully shariah laws dosn't impose the islamic marraige issues on the other faiths

Last edited by elwill; 01-08-2009 at 01:22 AM..
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:56 AM
 
40,037 posts, read 26,715,004 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
first of all , i asked you to bring for me something from quran and sunnah (somthing not regional , somthing we can find all muslims agreed with )
Completely unreasonable . . . there is probably nothing on earth that ALL of any group agree on. Enough of them do . . . so it is attributed to them.
Quote:
second , you mentioned the relation between man and woman under islam , but actaully shariah laws dosn't impose the islamic marraige issues on the other faiths
They are so barbaric and chauvinistic that it doesn't matter whether they impose them on other faiths . . . They shouldn't exist AT ALL in ANY civilized society!
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