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Old 12-19-2008, 12:06 PM
 
Location: mass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I guess you are correct...Honor killing is mentioned in the bible along with many other atrocities, but it is a practice abandoned long ago I think.

Now do you really want to continue this discussion? Shall I begin tearing down your holy book?
What is this, a threat?

I mean really, the guy (or girl, who knows) was just defending his/her religion and pointing out that there is mention of "honor killings" in the Bible. He was not tearing down the Bible, and didn't sound arrogant.

He was not being malicious, but your post sounds not only malicious but arrogant as well.
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Old 12-26-2008, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,471,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I guess you are correct...Honor killing is mentioned in the bible along with many other atrocities, but it is a practice abandoned long ago I think.

Now do you really want to continue this discussion? Shall I begin tearing down your holy book?
So far as I am concerned, no book is holy, but people make it seem so. Tear away at any and all. They can all stand some airing out.
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Old 12-26-2008, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
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Burn a bible and it barely gets a mention on the evening news. Burn a koran and it's a scandal worthy of nightly news coverage. Islam is the religion of terrorist, hate, and murder. What other religion in the world orders the execution of people who choose to leave the religion? What other religion in the world orders the execution of people they feel has insulted their religion?
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Old 12-27-2008, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,256,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
the crimes are always huge problem for all relegions
No, I think Islam pretty much takes the cake on this one. Muslim/Islam is the most violent religion in the world. I also don't think it is fair that a woman is murdered by Islamic courts when she is gang raped by Muslim men. Here's a few fine examples of sick minds.

"A European I know said he doesn't understand why a girl who is raped has to die to protect her family's honor. "After all," he said, "it isn't her fault". Is it so hard to understand that when an unmarried woman is no longer sexually pure, the family is humiliated? Her lack of chastity brings shame to everyone in her family. How else can her family's honor be cleansed except by her blood? What's to understand?"

"ABU QASH — Rofayda Qaoud — raped by her brothers and impregnated — refused to commit suicide, her mother recalls, even after she bought the unwed teenager a razor with which to slit her wrists. So Amira Abu Hanhan Qaoud says she did what she believes any good Palestinian parent would: restored her family's "honor" through murder. Armed with a plastic bag, razor and wooden stick, Qaoud entered her sleeping daughter's room last Jan. 27. "Tonight you die, Rofayda," she told the girl, before wrapping the bag tightly around her head. Next, Qaoud sliced Rofayda's wrists, ignoring her muffled pleas of "No, mother, no!" After her daughter went limp, Qaoud struck her in the head with the stick. Killing her sixth-born child took 20 minutes, Qaoud tells a visitor through a stream of tears and cigarettes that she smokes in rapid succession. "She killed me before I killed her," says the 43-year-old mother of nine. "I had to protect my children. This is the only way I could protect my family's honor."

"Kifaya Husayn, a 16-year-old Jordanian girl, was lashed to a chair by her 32-year-old brother. He gave her a drink of water and told her to recite an Islamic prayer. Then he slashed her throat. Immediately afterward, he ran out into the street, waving the bloody knife and crying, 'I have killed my sister to cleanse my honor.' Kifaya's crime? She was raped by another brother, a 21-year-old man. Her judge and jury? Her own uncles, who convinced her eldest brother that Kifaya was too much of a disgrace to the family's honor to be allowed to live. The murderer was sentenced to fifteen years, but the sentence was subsequently reduced to seven and a half years, an extremely severe penalty by Jordanian standards."

A woman who is either raped or commits adultery becomes the source of shame to her family. People will not marry her because she has been spoiled; she and her family becomes the object of gossip of everyone in the society; hence the entire family can lose prestige. No one would give a daughter to the brothers of that girl in marriage and no one would marry her sisters. The family and even the extended family are maligned and become outcasts. This can only stop if the family cleanses that stain with blood. The woman thus defiled must be killed even if she is a victim of rape.

Sick minds at work.

Last edited by MrsMtnsOnTheMind; 12-27-2008 at 02:07 PM..
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Old 12-27-2008, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,256,451 times
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Dictums of Quran and Hadiths which may dictate/incite honor killing:

Quran- 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witness from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them. Or God ordain for them some (other) way.”

Quran-24:2 “The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication—flog each of them with hundred stripes: Let no compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the last day.”

Quran-17:32 “ Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).
Quran-33:33 “stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display.”


Sahih Hadiths:

Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 196:
Narrated Abu Huraira: A man from Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque and called (the Prophet ) saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." On that the Prophet turned his face from him to the other side, whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and repeated his statement. The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side again. The man moved again (and repeated his statement) for the fourth time. So when the man had given witness four times against himself, the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" He replied, "No." The Prophet then said (to his companions), "Go and stone him to death." The man was a married one. Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari said: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the Musalla ('Id praying place) in Medina. When the stones hit him with their sharp edges, he fled, but we caught him at Al-Harra and stoned him till he died.
(See also Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 195.)


Sahi Buchari: 8:6814:

Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah al-Ansari: “A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah’s Messenger [Muhammad] and informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse; and he bore witness four times against himself. Allah’s Messenger ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married person.”


Sahi Muslim No. 4206:

“A woman came to the prophet and asked for purification by seeking punishment. He told her to go away and seek God’s forgiveness. She persisted four times and admitted she was pregnant. He told her to wait until she had given birth. Then he said that the Muslim community should wait until she had weaned her child. When the day arrived for the child to take solid food, Muhammad handed the child over to the community. And when he had given command over her and she was put in a hole up to her breast, he ordered the people to stone her. Khalid b. al-Walid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and when the blood spurted on her face he cursed her.”


Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol 2. pg 1009; and Sahih Muslim Vol 2. pg 65:

Hadhrat Abdullah ibne Abbaas (Radiallahu Anhu) narrates the lecture that Hadhrat Umar (Radiallaahu Anhu) delivered whilst sitting on the pulpit of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). Hadhrat Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) said, "Verily, Allah sent Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) with the truth, and revealed the Quran upon him. The verse regarding the stoning of the adulterer/ess was from amongst the verse revealed (in the Quraan). We read it, secured it and understood it. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) stoned and we stoned after him. I fear that with the passage of time a person might say, ‘We do not find mention of stoning in the Book of Allah and thereby go astray by leaving out an obligation revealed by Allah. Verily, the stoning of a adulterer/ress is found in the Quraan and is the truth, if the witnesses are met or there is a pregnancy or confession."


Al-Bayhaqi:
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “O mankind! Beware of fornication/adultery for it entails six dire consequences: three of them relating to this world and three to the next world. As for the three that are related to this world, they are the following: it removes the glow of one’s face, brings poverty, and reduces the life-span. As for its dire consequences in the next world they are: it brings down the wrath of Allah upon the person, subjects him to terrible reckoning, and finally casts him in hell-fire.”

The Iranian Supreme Court sanctioned that an adulteress should be buried up to her chest and stoned to death. Mullahs of Iran know the hadiths quite well. This august body is closely following Allah’s prophet. It is also quite prudent to consider that Muslim parents those who are practicing honor killing are directly motivated, or influenced by the above scriptural and historical (Hadiths) support; hence they are able to commit heinous crime called ‘honor killing’ with (almost) impunity, exultantly and with ample satisfaction that they are following the strict Islamic ethical code to guard chastity, as the holy Prophet repeatedly cautioned Muslims so seriously to guard their women’s chastity.

The Saudi Ambassador to London, Ghazi al-Qusaibi, says that stoning may seem irrational to the western mind, but it is "at the core of the Islamic faith." An intellectual, the Saudi ambassador to London asserted that stoning adulterers to death is a legitimate punishment for society. He also says that Westerners should respect Muslin culture on this matter. I don't think that will ever happen. The American people will never respect the murders of the Muslim culture and will punish those who insist on doing so.
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Old 12-27-2008, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,256,451 times
Reputation: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
No, I think Islam pretty much takes the cake on this one. Muslim/Islam is the most violent religion in the world. I also don't think it is fair that a woman is murdered by Islamic courts when she is gang raped by Muslim men. Here's a few fine examples of sick minds.

"A European I know said he doesn't understand why a girl who is raped has to die to protect her family's honor. "After all," he said, "it isn't her fault". Is it so hard to understand that when an unmarried woman is no longer sexually pure, the family is humiliated? Her lack of chastity brings shame to everyone in her family. How else can her family's honor be cleansed except by her blood? What's to understand?"

"ABU QASH — Rofayda Qaoud — raped by her brothers and impregnated — refused to commit suicide, her mother recalls, even after she bought the unwed teenager a razor with which to slit her wrists. So Amira Abu Hanhan Qaoud says she did what she believes any good Palestinian parent would: restored her family's "honor" through murder. Armed with a plastic bag, razor and wooden stick, Qaoud entered her sleeping daughter's room last Jan. 27. "Tonight you die, Rofayda," she told the girl, before wrapping the bag tightly around her head. Next, Qaoud sliced Rofayda's wrists, ignoring her muffled pleas of "No, mother, no!" After her daughter went limp, Qaoud struck her in the head with the stick. Killing her sixth-born child took 20 minutes, Qaoud tells a visitor through a stream of tears and cigarettes that she smokes in rapid succession. "She killed me before I killed her," says the 43-year-old mother of nine. "I had to protect my children. This is the only way I could protect my family's honor."

"Kifaya Husayn, a 16-year-old Jordanian girl, was lashed to a chair by her 32-year-old brother. He gave her a drink of water and told her to recite an Islamic prayer. Then he slashed her throat. Immediately afterward, he ran out into the street, waving the bloody knife and crying, 'I have killed my sister to cleanse my honor.' Kifaya's crime? She was raped by another brother, a 21-year-old man. Her judge and jury? Her own uncles, who convinced her eldest brother that Kifaya was too much of a disgrace to the family's honor to be allowed to live. The murderer was sentenced to fifteen years, but the sentence was subsequently reduced to seven and a half years, an extremely severe penalty by Jordanian standards."

A woman who is either raped or commits adultery becomes the source of shame to her family. People will not marry her because she has been spoiled; she and her family becomes the object of gossip of everyone in the society; hence the entire family can lose prestige. No one would give a daughter to the brothers of that girl in marriage and no one would marry her sisters. The family and even the extended family are maligned and become outcasts. This can only stop if the family cleanses that stain with blood. The woman thus defiled must be killed even if she is a victim of rape.

Sick minds at work.
Forgot about this one.

Even more horrifically, a four-year-old Palestinian girl, raped by a man in his mid-twenties, was left by her family to bleed to death. They did this because they felt her misfortune would sully their honor.

Women often accept their fate and expect to be executed, even in the case of incest and rape. "They have to kill us," exclaims Ritza, a middle-aged Palestinian woman, "to keep others from doing wrong. It is the law of our society." It is hard to grasp the logic. Girls, feeling they are ruined by scandal, go submissively to the slaughter. Such is the power of culture that has conditioned both victim and killer to accept their roles. "He had no choice but to kill her," says Rateb, whose son killed his sixteen-year-old sister after she was raped. "He was tormented. The community was persecuting him because of what his sister did. Her death has helped to wash away his shame."

The question should be why does the rapist have more rights than the victim? And why is the murderers feelings more important than the sister, mother, aunt who is being victimized?
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Old 12-27-2008, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
Burn a bible and it barely gets a mention on the evening news. Burn a koran and it's a scandal worthy of nightly news coverage. Islam is the religion of terrorist, hate, and murder. What other religion in the world orders the execution of people who choose to leave the religion? What other religion in the world orders the execution of people they feel has insulted their religion?
There are some pretty mean things in the Old Testament, too. Most Christians and Jews just ignore that. The terrorists and Sharia seem to enjoy the disgusting bits of their religion.
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Old 12-27-2008, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
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MrsMtnsOnTheMind,

I appreciate what you have posted, so many of us have been taught to respect every religion.

I admit, I cannot read it all, and am incredulous that people actually behave this way.

It's a very sad commentary on humanity, that we are capable of sinking so low.
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Old 12-27-2008, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,256,451 times
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I think today, Dec 27th is a fitting day to honor the first female leader of a Moslem country in the modern world that tried to make a change in a stiff necked Islamic society.

Benazir Bhutto was killed in a gun-and-suicide bomb attack on Dec. 27, 2007, as she was leaving a campaign rally in the garrison town of Rawalpindi, just outside the capital of Islamabad.

She was campaigning to return her Pakistan People's Party to power in parliamentary elections - a scenario supported by the United States and other Western governments, who liked her mass appeal among the country's 160 million people as well as her secular credentials.

Asif Zardari said his late wife "gave voice to the voiceless, strength to the weak and motivation to the people to strive for a goal higher than life."

Many mourners were angry no one has been punished for the murder. "We are ashamed that your killers are alive!" they shouted. She was murdered by radical Islamists.
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:50 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
No, I think Islam pretty much takes the cake on this one. Muslim/Islam is the most violent religion in the world. I also don't think it is fair that a woman is murdered by Islamic courts when she is gang raped by Muslim men. Here's a few fine examples of sick minds.
i agree with you , these are examples of sick minds
there are examples of sick minds within christians either
actually , there are sick minds within each relegion and each society
it's just , media in the west focus on muslims crimers

Last edited by elwill; 12-27-2008 at 11:00 PM..
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