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Old 01-21-2009, 11:18 PM
 
862 posts, read 2,360,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samir_Abdul View Post
because americans are 3 times more intolerant of others beliefs than the people they accuse of the samething.......
Tolerance?

Islam is the most intolerant religion in the world. They beat their women, torture women, teach their kids to hate Jews and Christians, commit suicide, have the worst record of women rights, etc.


YouTube - Hamas In Their Own Voices
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:48 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,584,964 times
Reputation: 4979
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
It's not Americans issuing fatwas because people are dressed the wrong way.




I have absolutely no problem with muslim women wearing scarves.

I do know though, that there has been discussions regarding whether or not they should be required to remove them for a driver's license picture, or state ID picture. Common sense tells me that yes--they should. They should also be required to remove the scarf if needed to identify them against that picture in a store or by a police officer.
I don't think that is necessary. When looking at my drivers license, I don't really think that my hair helps the police officer identify that I am actually me. Frankly, if the P.O. sees on my license that I have long blond hair and glasses, and then looks at me and sees long blond hair and glasses, do you think he's actually looking at my facial features? I just wonder.

What about bald people? Scarf would make no difference in their picture. If police are using hair to aid in identifying someone then this is a problem considering how much hair can be altered. Why would they need to see the hair? Sorry, but this is just our trying to force our culture on other people, who live in this country and are free to practice their religion. There is absolutely no reason a woman should have to remove a headscarf for identification purposes.

You can identify a person by just looking at the face and a scarf covering the hair is not going to hinder that.

Now if you said the scarf that covers the whole face except the eyes, the niqab, well then I'd have to agree with you. You most definitely cannot identify a woman by her eyes alone!!!
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:55 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,899,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
I have absolutely no problem with muslim women wearing scarves.

I do know though, that there has been discussions regarding whether or not they should be required to remove them for a driver's license picture, or state ID picture. Common sense tells me that yes--they should. They should also be required to remove the scarf if needed to identify them against that picture in a store or by a police officer.
As far as Identification photos for Driver's Licenses, passports etc, I agree, it does pose problems. The idea and purpose of having an ID is just exactly that, to identify the person.

Although I don't think a scarf is really an issue, however those black Burka with the eye slits for Photo IDs really are the issues as this family photo clearly illustrates.
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Old 01-22-2009, 01:15 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,042,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBear View Post
Tolerance?

Islam is the most intolerant religion in the world. They beat their women, torture women, teach their kids to hate Jews and Christians, commit suicide, have the worst record of women rights, etc.


YouTube - Hamas In Their Own Voices
so you should to ask mommytotwo
she is muslim female

let them speak for themselfs
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:52 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 4,104,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
As far as Identification photos for Driver's Licenses, passports etc, I agree, it does pose problems. The idea and purpose of having an ID is just exactly that, to identify the person.

Although I don't think a scarf is really an issue, however those black Burka with the eye slits for Photo IDs really are the issues as this family photo clearly illustrates.
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Correct. The scarf MIGHT be worn in a way that would obscure the view of the face...but I don't see a problem with it.

And you're right--I was referring to the burka more than the scarf. My apologies...should have kept that straight.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:13 AM
 
13,110 posts, read 13,719,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
Why would they need to see the hair? Sorry, but this is just our trying to force our culture on other people, who live in this country and are free to practice their religion. There is absolutely no reason a woman should have to remove a headscarf for identification purposes.

You can identify a person by just looking at the face and a scarf covering the hair is not going to hinder that.
No that's not true. hats and head coverings DO obscure and prevent identification, that's why banks insist you can't even walk in as a customer unless you take off your hat, so that in the event of a robbery, the cameras are able to more clearly identify the person. Same thing for driver's licenses.

Identification is about public safety, it is not about religion.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:23 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,584,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimSumRaja View Post
No that's not true. hats and head coverings DO obscure and prevent identification, that's why banks insist you can't even walk in as a customer unless you take off your hat, so that in the event of a robbery, the cameras are able to more clearly identify the person. Same thing for driver's licenses.
I am sorry, I just disagree with you.

A hat or head covering does not prevent "identification".

In the event of a bank robbery, a photo or video of the robber w/out hat or head covering does not serve as
"identification", merely as a grainy picture of a subject, and frankly most of the pictures of robbers I've seen on the news the robbers did in fact have their heads covered. Had it not been, this would have not made the picture clearer. Unless the robber is pippi longstocking, or some other person w/an equally distinctive hair-do, a scarf is not going to cover something of relevance.

Get a woman w/her headscarf in front of you w/ scarf on or off, look at her license, and you can see by the features of the face if that is her or not. If she is not really identifiable with the scarf, she wouldn't be without it either. Let's face it, we are not going to look EXACTLY like our license pictures. In mine, my hair is down and I am not wearing glasses. However, if i were to present my license, the likelihood is that I would have my hair up and glasses on. So how does seeing the hair on my license help identify me? Frankly, it doesn't.

If hair is necessary for identification, then how does anyone identify a person who has cut, permed, dyed, their hair or shaved off or grown a beard? Compared to these alterations, a scarf is no more a hindrance to identification than any other thing mentioned above. And they are all perfectly legal.

It is a matter of comfort level for the viewer and the distraction that the headscarf presents to those that are not accustomed to seeing it.

My uncle is a police sergeant and my cousins DH is a police officer. As soon as I get the chance to ask them, I'll find out what their opinion, as law enforcement professionals, is on the matter, and I'll come back to this thread and tell what they think.

I stand by my opinion that a headscarf, covering the hair, neck and ears, causes no more problems with identifying women than dying or cutting hair, gaining or losing 15+ pounds, getting cancer and losing your hair altogether, etc, all of which change the way you look enough that you may not look anything like your license photo.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:52 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,584,964 times
Reputation: 4979
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
so you should to ask mommytotwo
she is muslim female

let them speak for themselfs
Yes, elwill, I don't endure any of those things.

But rather than to argue with those who think like the above poster, let's TRY to get everyone to stay on topic with this one. We'll see what happens, but let's try.

The topic is the headscarf.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:58 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,042,077 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
Yes, elwill, I don't endure any of those things.

But rather than to argue with those who think like the above poster, let's TRY to get everyone to stay on topic with this one. We'll see what happens, but let's try.

The topic is the headscarf.
i'm watching your answers , and i agree with you completly
be sure , if i have somthing to add , i will
but i see that your answers are sufficient and very objective
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Maple Shade, NJ
123 posts, read 251,203 times
Reputation: 99
Well I as a Muslim Convert have made my choice where I wear the scarf outside of my workplace. At work I do not wear it, ONLY because I am in the Air Force and I am comfortable still being able to wear the ABU's which are long sleeved and so on. But once I get into my free time for shopping, etc. I wear a headscarf, even if I only have it tied around my head like a bandana so my hair is covered but neck is showing if I am not wearing a turtleneck.
For I.D. purposes, I think it sohould be no problem if a headscarf is worn, like previous posters said, If my picture shows brown hair, and when I am asked to I.D. myself and I have blond hair, they would have to match me by facial features. Now, I agree that a face veil should be removed for a I.D. picture even if it is only for a the time amount it takes to take the picture.
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