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Old 01-22-2009, 08:23 PM
 
787 posts, read 1,546,804 times
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Quote:
so you should to ask mommytotwo
she is muslim female

let them speak for themselfs
with that logic, why don't we ask an Israeli if their government is justified in attacking Gaza? They live there so they should speak for themselves.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:19 PM
 
Location: mass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
with that logic, why don't we ask an Israeli if their government is justified in attacking Gaza? They live there so they should speak for themselves.
Completely OT. And not a logical comparison, IMO.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Completely OT. And not a logical comparison, IMO.
it's an analogy. Look it up. And how is it not a logical comparison? In both cases, you select someone who knows about the situation as they are involved in it. In both cases, they have opinions that aren't necessarily going to be void of bias.
How about this comparison which you shouldn't be so politically sensitive to: should you ask an American citizen if their country is the best in the world to live in? They live there, they should know.

*edit*
Ok here's a better example: if you were to charge someone with say murder, do you take the word of the accused whether they're guilty or innocent or do you have an impartial jury who makes the decision after looking at the facts as an outsider?

Last edited by Spindle; 01-22-2009 at 11:42 PM..
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:48 PM
 
Location: mass
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ask a muslim woman how she is treated.

ask an israeli if it's gov't is justified in attacking Gaza.

First, you are asking the muslim woman how she herself is being treated. not because she "knows about the situation", but because she IS the situation.
Second you are asking one group (israelis) to give their opinion whether another group (their gov't) is justified in attacking a third group or location (gaza).

Elwil asked for my perspective as a muslim woman regarding the comment that Lbear made, "they beat their women, torture women" etc.... Not my perspective as a muslim woman to state if my gov't had a right to attack Sadaam Hussein.

He didn't ask for my opinion of Islam, just my treatment as a muslim woman. And my treatment is not an opinion. I AM NOT BEATEN, I AM NOT TORTURED, I DON'T TEACH MY CHILDREN TO HATE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS, I DIDN'T COMMIT SUICIDE, AND I HAVE RIGHTS AS A WOMAN. These are not biased opinions, they are the FACTS of my life. In your analogy, you asked for opinions from Israelis, not FACTS. Therefore, IMHO, it is a poor analogy.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:51 PM
 
Location: mass
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So with your edit, are you trying to say that you for example, as an "impartial outsider", should decide if I have been beaten, tortured, am teaching my children to hate christians and jews, have committed suicide, or have rights as a woman? I don't think so.

still don't get the analogy considering elwill was basically asking about my treatment as a muslim woman, unless you are arguing that that is not what he was asking me for.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:54 PM
 
787 posts, read 1,546,804 times
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ok, so elwill's unclear english is the fault here. To me,
Quote:
so you should to ask mommytotwo
she is muslim female

let them speak for themselfs
sounds like "ask her. She is a muslim female. She knows what muslim females go through," ie ask you as an example.

*edit*
Quote:
still don't get the analogy considering elwill was basically asking about my treatment as a muslim woman, unless you are arguing that that is not what he was asking me for.
This.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:57 PM
 
Location: mass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
ok, so elwill's unclear english is the fault here. To me,
sounds like "ask her. She is a muslim female. She knows what muslim females go through," ie ask you as an example.

*edit*
This.
yes, ask her as an example of what she goes through as a muslim female. Therefore, ask her about the facts of her life. not her opinion on something.

I have no problem stating when something is my opinion or a fact of my life, but there is a big difference between them.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:06 AM
 
787 posts, read 1,546,804 times
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so to what extent, as a muslim woman, do you have rights?
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:11 AM
 
Location: mass
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To an extent that I could not get into it at 2:08 in the morning, but to sum it up rather quickly, I am certain I have all the rights your daughter has if you have one. My parents wouldn't settle for anything else, nor would I. They couldn't give a rats ass what religion I choose to practice but would not have me treated in an unacceptable and unfair way by any man. That is probably the fastest way I can get you to understand my rights at this hour.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:13 AM
 
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alright i'll leave it now since it's so late there.
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