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Old 01-13-2009, 10:57 AM
 
810 posts, read 1,286,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
don't forget that israil consider itself peacefull either
USA consider itself peacefull , so it isn't a big dial

by the way we don't accept the acts of terrorist , if you didn't realized that yet
I'm not discussing this in terms of the battles between countries. I am simply trying to understand Islam. It seems that there is strife within the ranks of Islam...but on the other hand, there is no accountability for those who don't comply to Muslim standards.

How can you NOT accept the acts of terror? Are they not being committed by Muslims in good standing, since there is no measure of Muslim standard to follow?

I am beginning to understand, but the more clear it gets the more Islam doesn't make sense.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:36 AM
 
1,788 posts, read 4,257,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
These are not Christian Organizations and are not affiliated with any Denomination.....they are not considered organizations because they are not led by a governing body, there are no gatherings, and there is no membership process. These are very small pockets of people around the world that claim to be loosely associated with Christianity, but are not. You gotta do better than this and you can't compare these splinter groups to Islam who has a very violent presence around the world.
I was curious, and so I looked up some of those groups. They are indeed classified as Christian terrorists so I think the list is valid. Islam isn't the only one who has violent members.
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,575,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
But I don't know you, elwill . . . sufficiently to direct any accusations toward you. I only know of the approval by Allah with regard to infidels and deception . . . so that is all I can say. Whether you are guilty of following Allah's permission or not . . . I cannot tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Jihad is war against the infidels and . . . "War is deceit."(Volume 4, Book 52, Number 267, 268, 269).
Volume 4 of what? Please give us your source. Where are you getting the Allah/infidels/deception business from? Volume 4, Book 52, Number 267-269 of what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
Mommytotwo, thank you for your response. I think my sister is drawn to Islam because she thinks she can do whatever she wants and be considered a Muslim. I think Islam reaps what it sows...don't hold your members accountable and bring reproach on the whole organization.
What do you mean? Don't hold your members accountable? As compared to what other religion that holds it's members "accountable"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
Ok...so what do Muslims consider the terrorist Muslims to be?

Do you see where I'm confused? I don't understand how a group can consider themselves peaceful, yet accept those into the fold who are so heinously evil and ruining the Muslim reputation around the world.
You are confused. Muslims consider terrorists to be terrorists. A muslim cannot say another Muslim is not muslim, no matter what he does.

Muslims obviously know when another Muslim is not doing what he/she should, but they do not have the ability to say "So and so is no longer a muslim". Again, what other religion does this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
I'm not discussing this in terms of the battles between countries. I am simply trying to understand Islam. It seems that there is strife within the ranks of Islam...but on the other hand, there is no accountability for those who don't comply to Muslim standards.

How can you NOT accept the acts of terror? Are they not being committed by Muslims in good standing, since there is no measure of Muslim standard to follow?

I am beginning to understand, but the more clear it gets the more Islam doesn't make sense.
In Islam, there are rules of war. Rules of war virtually always disregarded by terrorists. Therefore terrorists are acting against Islam.

You don't want to talk politics but frankly, most of the muslim fundamentalist terrorists are driven by political strife, not their religion.

I would not say that a Muslim terrorist is a "muslim in good standing". But no one can say that he or she is not a muslim. It's no one's call. People can point out that that person is acting against Islam, but that is about it.

What religion kicks people out, if the fact that this does not occur in Islam is confusing you? Do Christians cease to be Christians if they "sin"? Does someone tell them "you are no longer Christian, or Catholic, or Hindu, or whatever"?
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Old 01-13-2009, 01:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
What religion kicks people out, if the fact that this does not occur in Islam is confusing you? Do Christians cease to be Christians if they "sin"? Does someone tell them "you are no longer Christian, or Catholic, or Hindu, or whatever"?
Actually there are a lot of religions that will excommunicate members for certain wrongdoings.
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:39 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
I'm not discussing this in terms of the battles between countries. I am simply trying to understand Islam. It seems that there is strife within the ranks of Islam...but on the other hand, there is no accountability for those who don't comply to Muslim standards.

How can you NOT accept the acts of terror? Are they not being committed by Muslims in good standing, since there is no measure of Muslim standard to follow?

I am beginning to understand, but the more clear it gets the more Islam doesn't make sense.
if muslims made just terror in our countries against innocents ( including non_muslims) they will be killed under our laws for thiere crime
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:45 PM
 
40,058 posts, read 26,739,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
Volume 4 of what? Please give us your source. Where are you getting the Allah/infidels/deception business from? Volume 4, Book 52, Number 267-269 of what?
I'm sorry . . . this question reveals that you have accepted Islam without adequate investigation of it . . . based upon your love for the man you are with. There can be no meaningful discourse when the acceptance is based on love of another who may or may not know or understand what you have been asked to accept. This is not to fault you . . . there are so many hadiths . . . but clearly your defense is based on your love for this man and not knowledge of Islam. Be well.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:17 PM
 
810 posts, read 1,286,906 times
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Mommytotwo...thank you for your explanations. I think I understand...a Muslim is a Muslim and no other human can say otherwise...it's for Allah to decide.

As ZugZub pointed out there are several Christian denominations that will excommunicate members from the congregation if they are sinning unrepentantly.
In 1 Corinthians 5 it says...
11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

I may be crazy, but I personally appreciate that my Christian congregation is protected in this way. Everyone is welcome, but to be baptised and in good standing you must maintain a standard of Christian principles. If for some reason a person is excommunicated, they can always get reinstated by changing their conduct. The bible gives us counsel on how to change our lives and "put on a new personality". It seems that the Islam would have benefited from requiring members to change their conduct to be considered a Muslim...ie: terrorists would not be associated with Islam.

"...most of the muslim fundamentalist terrorists are driven by political strife, not their religion..."
Isn't that a problem? Political movements masquerading as religions?

Thanks for helping me clarify some points
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:23 PM
 
810 posts, read 1,286,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
if muslims made just terror in our countries against innocents ( including non_muslims) they will be killed under our laws for thiere crime
Hmmm.... so you do judge members. I thought only Allah could judge???
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,257,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
infidels means disbelievers
so according to muslims , non muslims are infidels
according to christiance (for example) muslims are the infidels

generally infiedels refer to athiest according to believers
We don't call people "infidels," you are either a believer or an unbeliever. An infidel is someone who has no religious beliefs what so ever.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:45 PM
 
820 posts, read 1,082,604 times
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This :
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
if muslims made just terror in our countries against innocents ( including non_muslims) they will be killed under our laws for thiere crime

There is much more opposition than you might think.

www.thememriblog.org


Check out these sections.
The Jihad and Terrorism Threat Moniter , then click on : Global Jihad -Opposition & Dissent.

Some serious opposition to extremists here--for example :
Sheik Ali Hatem...Iraqi Sunni Awaking...:
"Al Qaeda members are ...are scum... kill them".

Which is exactly what the Desert Protectors and the Sons of Iraq have been doing.
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