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Old 01-14-2009, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,267,194 times
Reputation: 440

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugZub View Post
Thus excuses like yours make an easy out for Christians who deny that Christianity produces terrorists too.
Well, that is where you are wrong. Christianity does not "produce" terrorists. People are terrorists to begin with and need a vehicle to justify their beef with society.

Still you can't compare this with Islam. Christians aren't in the news everyday bombing people and sending out suicide bombers.
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,267,194 times
Reputation: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
Whatever. Think what you want to think.

You sound quite sarcastic, btw. Where does that make you fit in?

MrsMtnsontheMind, make a negative and very personal assumption about me based on nothing but pure and biased speculation and you will again see how frustrated and irritated I can get. Above all else, I am human.

I take it personally when people say things about me that are not true.
When you use profanity while defending religion you only make people question your morality and motives with regards to the issues.
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Illinois
2,415 posts, read 2,441,330 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnasr View Post
Islam simply means peace, i have travel to many parts and reading alot what people are saying about Islam. Sorry you all got it wrong. People committing suicide bombing is not Islam, "anybody that kill himself he will be punished in here after" so what those islam have to do with terrorism? Muslim killing his fellow muslim as a result of suicide bomb, is that Islam?NO. That is peoples choice, What war do Islam know? "HOLY WAR" that is it, islam indicate to marry four(4) wives (IF) you will be justly to all of them , feed them and their children,provide shelter to them and equality of love.Please Islam is not a religion of killing but a religion of peace, a good muslim is different from others....Most of the people involved in this killings are the others who call them selves Muslim....ALLAH AKHBAR....


Share your ideas with me in other for the world to know the real background of Islam, If you have questions please say them, its all knowledge.....
....i heard the koran is a constitution and Islam is a nation
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,267,194 times
Reputation: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
An assumption is never warranted.

You say that my situation is the exception NOT the rule. What are you basing this opinion on? Do you have some statistics to back this up? I mean I really want to know how you have come to this opinion.

Congratulations, you avoided attacking my husband and his motives, but in the process attacked me and my motives and interests.

You made an assumption. An incorrect assumption. And you know what we say about assuming things.

My reaction was based on the fact that your assumption could have not been further from the truth.

My reaction confirms nothing. I am an intelligent person, with my own functioning brain, which I use periodically to make decisions regarding my own self interest and that of my children.

By saying that I didn't fully investigate the religion you are also insulting me as a mother. I would never agree that my children be involved in ANYTHING without investigating it before hand, which is why I did just that. If he would have allowed the children to be any religion, I frankly would have left his religion to him. But because he flat out said that his kids would have to be muslim, I of course had to check out what this entailed.
Forget it, your post was just insulting to me all around.

Boy, I really need to learn to ignore things like this.
Wow that says a lot about him and his religion but does not surprise me. Muslims have forced people to covert for years. It's what honor killing is all about. So if you or your children ever decide to convert to another religion, he has permission from his religion to discipline you....or kill you.
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Illinois
2,415 posts, read 2,441,330 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnasr View Post
Islam simply means peace, i have travel to many parts and reading alot what people are saying about Islam. Sorry you all got it wrong. People committing suicide bombing is not Islam, "anybody that kill himself he will be punished in here after" so what those islam have to do with terrorism? Muslim killing his fellow muslim as a result of suicide bomb, is that Islam?NO. That is peoples choice, What war do Islam know? "HOLY WAR" that is it, islam indicate to marry four(4) wives (IF) you will be justly to all of them , feed them and their children,provide shelter to them and equality of love.Please Islam is not a religion of killing but a religion of peace, a good muslim is different from others....Most of the people involved in this killings are the others who call them selves Muslim....ALLAH AKHBAR....

Christians understand jews.........there are many styles, types..........We know little of Muslims.............is a certain kind or type shooting rockets into Isreal Share your ideas with me in other for the world to know the real background of Islam, If you have questions please say them, its all knowledge.....
??
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:27 PM
 
40,602 posts, read 27,122,280 times
Reputation: 6123
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
An assumption is never warranted.
You get to know everyone you deal with personally sufficient to allow you to operate ONLY on valid information about them? . . . I am amazed.
Quote:
You say that my situation is the exception NOT the rule. What are you basing this opinion on? Do you have some statistics to back this up? I mean I really want to know how you have come to this opinion.
I practiced my doctoral specialties of Social Psychology and Quanittative Methods for 30 years as professor and researcher.
Quote:
Congratulations, you avoided attacking my husband and his motives, but in the process attacked me and my motives and interests.
I am sorry you saw it as an attack as opposed to an attempt to avoid this kind of emotional outburst.
Quote:
You made an assumption. An incorrect assumption. And you know what we say about assuming things.
And I apologize for it . . . but it IS the exception . . . NOT the norm in relationships.
Quote:
By saying that I didn't fully investigate the religion you are also insulting me as a mother. I would never agree that my children be involved in ANYTHING without investigating it before hand, which is why I did just that. If he would have allowed the children to be any religion, I frankly would have left his religion to him. But because he flat out said that his kids would have to be muslim, I of course had to check out what this entailed.
Forget it, your post was just insulting to me all around.
You are to be commended for your due diligence and rationality. However . . . I am even more suspicious of his position now that you have revealed his insistence about the children. In your prior posts you indicated he was not very religious or whatever . . . indicating a much more casual attitude toward it.
Quote:
Boy, I really need to learn to ignore things like this.
It is usually best.
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:47 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,609,671 times
Reputation: 4979
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
Wow that says a lot about him and his religion but does not surprise me. Muslims have forced people to covert for years. It's what honor killing is all about. So if you or your children ever decide to convert to another religion, he has permission from his religion to discipline you....or kill you.
This is getting ridiculous. It's so ridiculous I can't even be mad.

Raising your child in your religion is perfectly normal. In Islam, the religion is passed down from the father, that is just how it is. I could have moved on to another relationship if I had a problem with it.

My Dh is not going to kill me or anyone else. Well, unless someone intends to do me or our children bodily harm. Then yes, he would do what is necessary to protect us, or honestly anyone else that he finds in harms way.

Nowhere in the Quran does it say that people should be killed for converting from Islam to another religion. If it does, please correct me.

Are you religious? What is your religion? Do you have any kids? How did you raise them?

I think you know enough about me. Care to share YOUR story?
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,147 posts, read 5,141,129 times
Reputation: 2544
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnasr View Post
Islam simply means peace, i have travel to many parts and reading alot what people are saying about Islam. Sorry you all got it wrong. People committing suicide bombing is not Islam, "anybody that kill himself he will be punished in here after" so what those islam have to do with terrorism? Muslim killing his fellow muslim as a result of suicide bomb, is that Islam?NO. That is peoples choice, What war do Islam know? "HOLY WAR" that is it, islam indicate to marry four(4) wives (IF) you will be justly to all of them , feed them and their children,provide shelter to them and equality of love.Please Islam is not a religion of killing but a religion of peace, a good muslim is different from others....Most of the people involved in this killings are the others who call them selves Muslim....ALLAH AKHBAR....


Share your ideas with me in other for the world to know the real background of Islam, If you have questions please say them, its all knowledge.....
There are numerous verses in the Qur'an and Hadiths that advocate killing apostates.
Sura 4:89, Sura(9:11-12), Sura 2:217, Sura 9:73-74,Sura 88:21, Sura 5:54, Sura 9:66, Bukhari 52:260. Bukhari 83:37, Bukhari 84:57,Bukhari 84:58, Bukhari 89:271, Bukhari 84:64-65.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:41 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,609,671 times
Reputation: 4979
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
There are numerous verses in the Qur'an and Hadiths that advocate killing apostates.
Sura 4:89, Sura(9:11-12), Sura 2:217, Sura 9:73-74,Sura 88:21, Sura 5:54, Sura 9:66, Bukhari 52:260. Bukhari 83:37, Bukhari 84:57,Bukhari 84:58, Bukhari 89:271, Bukhari 84:64-65.
Those suras in the Quran do not advocate killing apostates. I just read them. I wonder where you got this list from? Becaue if you actually read them you would see that no where does it say that anyone should kill an apostate.

I can quote them but it will be a very long post.

In most of these suras it says that the person who turns their back will be punished in the hereafter. (heaven/hell), not that someone should kill them right now.

I did not read the hadiths but I will later. The problem for me with hadiths is that I don't have a set of hadith books with explanation right now to refer to. But I will try to find it on the internet.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:46 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,609,671 times
Reputation: 4979
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You get to know everyone you deal with personally sufficient to allow you to operate ONLY on valid information about them? . . . I am amazed.
Yes, I try not to make assumptions. Rather, I ask questions. Regarding you. I had ideas. Maybe Iranian, a sufi, "mystic", hm, not sure, probably has a phd, "phd", maybe still working on it, maybe not, maybe studied Islam, maybe just cutting and pasting off the internet (which is why I asked you what volume, wasn't sure if you even knew). Probably a man, but not sure. Etc. Etc. Etc. I can make guesses, but they are pure speculation which is why it is just better to ask for the information you are seeking, ask for the information, discuss. That is what we are here for, isn't it. At some level yes we all make assumptions but I wouldn't have made the assumption you did and certainly if that was my suspicion I would have sought out more info to support it before voicing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I practiced my doctoral specialties of Social Psychology and Quanittative Methods for 30 years as professor and researcher.
Congratulations on this achievement, but I don't hear anything specific regarding women converts to islam. Did you conduct a research on them? Read a book? An article? A paper? Attend a conference? A social psychology paper on this? Anything regarding women converts that would lead you to the idea that women convert to islam because of love and not because they have a brain in their head and read and decide? I just want to know where you are coming from, and I do believe these women exist but I would need some sort of factual information before I speculated on a percentage that convert solely for love and those that convert out of knowledge and information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
However . . . I am even more suspicious of his position now that you have revealed his insistence about the children. In your prior posts you indicated he was not very religious or whatever . . . indicating a much more casual attitude toward it.
Seriously, I could go on about how non religious my husband is, but his religious "shortcomings" are not the issue here.

There is no conspiracy. Don't get overly suspicious. My DH did not have to insist about the kids because it was not an issue. I wasn't arguing with him about it, upset that the kids couldn't be my religion. From an Islamic perspective, it is a father's responsibility to raise his children as muslims. Bottom line.

Look, a few years ago we visited my DH's cousin & wife. Wine, beer, hell they were even ordering the potato skins w/bacon bits. I had to tell them there was bacon on it in case they didn't know because my father in law was eating with us (not even sure if I was muslim at the time). We got to their house, Santa/Christmas stuff everywhere. The wife didn't look Egyptian, she looked asian, and she wasn't covering her head. I whispered to my husband, "are they muslim?" He said "of course" as if it was entirely obvious. Later the husband describes himself as a liberal democratic hippie or something like that (I have never told him he should be saying liberal democratic YUPPIE but this is beside the point). These people don't pray or fast. Charity, maybe they give to charity but that is just a nice thing to do anyway.

Point is, they have a kid now. And you can bet your last dollar that if I ask them if their daughter is "muslim" they are going to say yes. What else would she be?

There is no conspiracy here. I would venture to say that even non practicing muslims are probably going to call their children muslim. What do you think they are going to do, raise them to be jews or christians or something else? Naturally, they are going to raise them whatever they are.

It seems you simply cannot comprehend what I am saying. Can you not wrap your mind around the fact that a person can be totally not practicing their religion but what their children to be that religion? Clearly you are an educated person. Thus, I cannot understand why you are still "suspicious".

Are you ready to say I am lying? I have given out more personal information than anyone on this thread. If you think I am lying, say it. There is no benefit for me to tell stories here.
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