What is Islam? (heaven, Egypt, verses, hell)

[MrsMtnsOnTheMind]

Originally Posted by mommytotwo

Bull$hit! is what I say to this.

Again, VOLUME 4 OF WHAT? Volume 4 of some set of Hadiths? Which set? by Whom? There is no "volume 4" of the QURAN. So, again VOLUME 4 of WHAT by WHOM?



Ha, this is actually hilarious. The thought of my husband being the one to "bring me to Islam" is like the laugh of the century. His being Muslim by birth is about his only contribution.

There may be women in the position that you describe but I am not one of them. So try again.



Again, bull$hit. Go ahead, give me the hadiths that state exactly what you implied. Then I can read them myself and see if you are taking them out of context.

And don't ever think you know something about me EVER again because you don't know anything about me. I am not some idiot that just sold my kids down the river with some weird religion because I was blinded by love for some man that came along. I know how to read, and I have read, and I do read.

You obviously do too, and I ask you to post your sources, repeatedly now and you refuse to do so. Why?

Wow, your responses to some of these points sound very belligerent. Perhaps you do fit in quiet well with Islam after all.

[MrsMtnsOnTheMind]

Originally Posted by ZugZub

I was curious, and so I looked up some of those groups. They are indeed classified as Christian terrorists so I think the list is valid. Islam isn't the only one who has violent members.

They are splinter groups with no denominational ties.....at least not the ones in the US. Most of these groups create their own churches and "call themselves" Christian because they don't have any other group to relate to. They don't have congregations, memberships, pastors, choirs, praise music, etc. They don't fit the mold of Christianity so if it don't look or taste like an orange, guess what? It ain't an orange.

[MrsMtnsOnTheMind]

Originally Posted by elwill

i don't call them infidels either , nor early muslims nor mohammed or quran did that . do you know why ?
because infidels is english word

kafir is the arabic word which means unbeliever , i don't know if infidels is accurate translation for kafir

anyway i just told you what i understand as a meaning for this word , may be it insulting you somhow , i don't know , english not my native language

when i read this word or using it , i means non_muslims , not more than that

Calling someone an "infidel" is like saying they are stupid, ignorant and/or unlearned. It is not a very good term to use.

[ZugZub]

Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind

They are splinter groups with no denominational ties.....at least not the ones in the US. Most of these groups create their own churches and "call themselves" Christian because they don't have any other group to relate to. They don't have congregations, memberships, pastors, choirs, praise music, etc. They don't fit the mold of Christianity so if it don't look or taste like an orange, guess what? It ain't an orange.

Thus excuses like yours make an easy out for Christians who deny that Christianity produces terrorists too.

[elwill]

Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind

Calling someone an "infidel" is like saying they are stupid, ignorant and/or unlearned. It is not a very good term to use.

so , i'm sorry
anyway m even all translations for quran i know not using this word as a translation for kafir

for instance
2-264
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la tubtiloo sadaqatikum bialmanni waalatha kaallathee yunfiqu malahu riaa alnnasi wala yuminu biAllahi waalyawmi alakhiri famathaluhu kamathali safwanin AAalayhi turabun faasabahu wabilun fatarakahu saldan la yaqdiroona AAala shayin mimma kasaboo waAllahu la yahdee alqawma alkafireena


Yusuf Ali
O ye who believe! cancel not your charity by reminders of your generosity or by injury,- like those who spend their substance to be seen of men, but believe neither in Allah nor in the Last Day. They are in parable like a hard, barren rock, on which is a little soil: on it falls heavy rain, which leaves it (Just) a bare stone. They will be able to do nothing with aught they have earned. And Allah guideth not those who reject faith.

Shakir translation
O you who believe! do not make your charity worthless by reproach and injury, like him who spends his property to be seen of men and does not believe in Allah and the last day; so his parable is as the parable of a smooth rock with earth upon it, then a heavy rain falls upon it, so it leaves it bare; they shall not be able to gain anything of what they have earned; and Allah does not guide the unbelieving people.

Pickthal translation
O ye who believe! Render not vain your alms giving by reproach and injury, like him who spendeth his wealth only to be seen of men and believeth not in Allah and the Last Day. His likeness is as the likeness of a rock whereon is dust of earth; a rainstorm smiteth it, leaving it smooth and bare. They have no control of aught of that which they have gained. Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by mommytotwo

And warfare against infidels is mentioned in 199 of them?

Because you stated above that war against the infidels is jihad. So, anyone who didn't know better would think that jihad is ONLY war against infidels, and nothing else.

The apologists who would lower concerns among the people of the book and unbelievers talk about personal jihad against one's nature . . . but that is why I pointed out the 199 mentions in hadith that refer to warfare.

Actually, I think I don't want to get into this with you, without knowing where your education on the subject was obtained.

Interesting . . .

Seeing what can be learned on the internet, and not even by Islamic sources, is very biased and disturbing and unless you have researched the topic in an unbiased manner, then I would have to take whatever you say with a grain of salt.

Probably wise in all cases . . . but I used standard translations in academic sources as my conern was with views of God not terrorism or political issues.

And I do not trust anyone who makes assumptions about other people (like you did about me). I simply cannot trust the type of person that "thinks" they can make statements such as you did from the little information I provided. You were way out on a limb. What kind of person makes such assumptions?

A considerate one who was trying to avoid attacking your husband or his motivies or the purity of your interest in Islam based on your love for another. I assure you your situation is the exception NOT the rule in such matters. Love is not the most rational of motivations. On pure probabilities alone . . my assumption was warranted.

I know this type of person, the one that assumes things about other people and jumps to conclusions, and unfortunately this type of person usually cannot be reasoned with. A particular uncle of mine comes to mind. And my own brother. There are some people you just don't want to get into discussions with. I am getting the feeling you might be one of them.

My ability to reason has never been questioned and I assure you I am quite capable. But this reaction confirms my earlier assumption about the emotional content of the decision and I agree with your decision to withdraw.

You have already shown me w/the Quran translation that you are looking for the most negative translation you can find, and if someone provides another translation that is benign, you will disregard it as irrelevant. Therefore you are stuck on what you have in front of you, whatever it may be. If it was me, I'd look to several sources to find the common ground, you have found a very negative one that suits your needs, therefore no others matter. So you know what you are looking for before you find it.

I am not going to discuss it further with you but will, at my leisure, obtain Bukhari (WITH EXPLANATION of CONTEXT) and look at these hadith myself.

"Peace" to you.

On the contrary . . . I am completely dismayed by the concept of jihad because the fundamental principles of Islam are so beautiful and consistent with Jesus' beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount. Mohammed corrupted and distorted those principles for the purpose of worldly conquest. It is an abomination . . . as is the use of terrorism for the same purpose. There is a special fate for the Imams and old men who breed the young to treasure death and martyrdom so they may have weapons for their worldly goals.

Have a good night, take it all up with elwill if he likes.

Be well . . . love your man and children . . . enjoy your life.

[elwill]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

The apologists who would lower concerns among the people of the book and unbelievers talk about personal jihad against one's nature . . . but that is why I pointed out the 199 mentions in hadith that refer to warfare.

we didn't ever denyed that warfare is one type of jihad
jihad purely means strive , so when you strive phisycally against your enemy who trying to kill you , it means jihad also
but media is suceeded to close your mind that jihad means holy war .
actually holly war concept not exist in islamic vocabulary

Interesting . . . Probably wise in all cases . . . but I used standard translations in academic sources as my conern was with views of God not terrorism or political issues.

i have doubts , give me the links to check it out , plz

A considerate one who was trying to avoid attacking your husband or his motivies or the purity of your interest in Islam based on your love for another. I assure you your situation is the exception NOT the rule in such matters. Love is not the most rational of motivations. On pure probabilities alone . . my assumption was warranted. My ability to reason has never been questioned and I assure you I am quite capable. But this reaction confirms my earlier assumption about the emotional content of the decision and I agree with your decision to withdraw.

so you wanna to say that it's easy for christians to deny jesus as thier savior becuae of thier love ?
actually , most of athiests were christians , did they reject thier relegion for marriage either ?
sorry your reasoning not logical at all

On the contrary . . . I am completely dismayed by the concept of jihad because the fundamental principles of Islam are so beautiful and consistent with Jesus' beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount. Mohammed corrupted and distorted those principles for the purpose of worldly conquest. It is an abomination . . . as is the use of terrorism for the same purpose. There is a special fate for the Imams and old men who breed the young to treasure death and martyrdom so they may have weapons for their worldly goals. Be well . . . love your man and children . . . enjoy your life.

well i think that converts to islam are raised in the world with high rates , even in america itself , will you suggest also that muslims forced them in america to be muslims ? or will you say that all of them prefered the marriage from muslims than being christians

[mommytotwo]

Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind

Wow, your responses to some of these points sound very belligerent. Perhaps you do fit in quiet well with Islam after all.

Whatever. Think what you want to think.

You sound quite sarcastic, btw. Where does that make you fit in?

MrsMtnsontheMind, make a negative and very personal assumption about me based on nothing but pure and biased speculation and you will again see how frustrated and irritated I can get. Above all else, I am human.

I take it personally when people say things about me that are not true.

[mommytotwo]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

A considerate one who was trying to avoid attacking your husband or his motivies or the purity of your interest in Islam based on your love for another. I assure you your situation is the exception NOT the rule in such matters. Love is not the most rational of motivations. On pure probabilities alone . . my assumption was warranted.

An assumption is never warranted.

You say that my situation is the exception NOT the rule. What are you basing this opinion on? Do you have some statistics to back this up? I mean I really want to know how you have come to this opinion.

Congratulations, you avoided attacking my husband and his motives, but in the process attacked me and my motives and interests.

You made an assumption. An incorrect assumption. And you know what we say about assuming things.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

this reaction confirms my earlier assumption about the emotional content of the decision

My reaction was based on the fact that your assumption could have not been further from the truth.

My reaction confirms nothing. I am an intelligent person, with my own functioning brain, which I use periodically to make decisions regarding my own self interest and that of my children.

By saying that I didn't fully investigate the religion you are also insulting me as a mother. I would never agree that my children be involved in ANYTHING without investigating it before hand, which is why I did just that. If he would have allowed the children to be any religion, I frankly would have left his religion to him. But because he flat out said that his kids would have to be muslim, I of course had to check out what this entailed.
Forget it, your post was just insulting to me all around.

Boy, I really need to learn to ignore things like this.

[Spindle]

kafir is the arabic word which means unbeliever , i don't know if infidels is accurate translation for kafir

don't use the word kafir in South Africa. It is what the whites used to call the blacks during the apartheid era and hence, has negative connotations of akin to the word "******" in America.