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Old 02-23-2009, 11:53 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 4,089,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by effie briest View Post
and even worse you do not have the palest shimmer of mysticism.
and hence, no respect either.

was that an attempt to insult me?
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:57 AM
 
4,512 posts, read 6,728,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
was that an attempt to insult me?
don't think i've been known to insult anyone, and certainly not another human being, but calling a spade a spade.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:59 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 4,089,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by effie briest View Post
don't think i've been known to insult anyone, and certainly not another human being, but calling a spade a spade.
If you're going to throw it out there and make yourself to be above me, could you explain it to this unenlightened backwoods hick?
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:10 PM
 
84 posts, read 236,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a slave of Allah View Post
No.

There were christians at the time of the prophet (prayer and peace be upon him) and they prayed in His mosque as well.

If you disbelieve in one of the messengers of God, then you disbelieve in all of them for all of them had the same messege that is to believe in God and His Oneness and that God has no partners.

You christian deny that fact and claim a false statement against God and you associate other with Him as partners, Glorified and Exalted be God Above what you describe.

And they say: Be Jews or Christians, then ye will be rightly guided. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Nay, but (we follow) the religion of Abraham, the upright, and he was not of the Mushrikeen (those who ascribe partners to God). (135)

[SIZE=2]Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered. (136)[/SIZE]
I do not believe in Muhammad, because he denies that Jesus was the Son of God. Just because I do not believe in Muhammad, does not mean that I disbelieve in all the messengers of God. I beleive that Jesus never taught that God has no partners. I suppose you would call me a "Mushrikeen." That is fine.

I have never heard of the term "partner" to describe Jesus or the Holy Spirit (the Trinity). "Partner" does not describe what we believe. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is a better description.

Please look at our OT, which suggests that God and his Son existed before time.

"Then the Lord God said: "See! The man has become like one of us, knowing what is good and what is bad! Therefore, he must not be allowed to put out his hand to take fruit from the tree of life also, and thus eat of it and live forever." Genesis 3:22

Genesis is a passage from the OT, and it suggests that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit existed before the coming of Jesus, at the time of Adam. "the man has become like one of us,"

You say "Glorified and Exalted be God Above what you descirbe." I say, "Glorified and Exalted be God through his Son, Jesus Christ." You treat God as if he is disrespected because we say he had a Son. You limit God. You place limits on His power. With God, all things are possible. Does not your son (I assume you have a son) bring you honor if he does good? Don't people say, "a slave of Allah"'s son has done great things. Praise to "a slave of Allah's son?"
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:20 PM
 
995 posts, read 1,201,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSooner View Post
I
You say "Glorified and Exalted be God Above what you descirbe." I say, "Glorified and Exalted be God through his Son, Jesus Christ." You treat God as if he is disrespected because we say he had a Son. You limit God. You place limits on His power. With God, all things are possible. Does not your son (I assume you have a son) bring you honor if he does good? Don't people say, "a slave of Allah"'s son has done great things. Praise to "a slave of Allah's son?"
Yet another way of looking at it is - you place a limit on God's powers when you say he needs a son. Why would the Master of the heavens and the universe need another? I think the issue is that christianity believe that God made man in His image whereas Islam believe that God is unique unlike any of His Creations
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:23 PM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,063,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
Do not have one word about him? What?.

some they say he is God only
some they say he is son of God only

some they say he is both

i do not know if there is any say he is prophet only

at least they have three believes

and this is one of the proofs for the errors in the bible
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,871,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
some they say he is God only
some they say he is son of God only

some they say he is both

i do not know if there is any say he is prophet only

at least they have three believes

and this is one of the proofs for the errors in the bible
The only thing that proves, is that man misunderstands and interprets things in error, not that the Bible is in error.

Look at it this way. If a muslim uses the Quran to say that honor killings or suicide bombings are right in God's eyes, but you say that is not what the Quran teaches... would you then conclude there are errors in the Quran, or that some men interpret it wrong?
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:39 PM
 
84 posts, read 236,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
Yet another way of looking at it is - you place a limit on God's powers when you say he needs a son. Why would the Master of the heavens and the universe need another? I think the issue is that christianity believe that God made man in His image whereas Islam believe that God is unique unlike any of His Creations
Ahhhh. Very good question! So that the sins of many would be forgiven by relying on the sacrifice of His Son. In the OT, the Jews had to continually sacrifice lambs, birds, ect. They had to follow the law of Moses (i.e. don't eat pigs, don't heal on the sabbath, sacrifice this way). We believe that Jesus abolished the Mosiac law, and asked us to accept him personally. We see God's Son as a Gift out of love, and yes, we say that we (not God) needed his Son, for to fulfill the Mosiac law was fruitless. Jesus showed the Pharisees that even if they obeyed the law, they were still not in God! They were hypocrites!

Thank you for explaining to me the Muslim viewpoint that God is unique unlike any of his creations. I personally (as does the Catholic Church) do not believe that because you do not accept Jesus as God, you are automatically going hell. I believe that the following the two greatest commandemnts (from Jesus) 1) Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

As far as Jesus being both God and the Son of God at the same time, I do not see a problem with this either. We beleive in one God, with the Jesus and the Holy Spirit proceeding from this one God.
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:43 PM
 
995 posts, read 1,201,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSooner View Post
Ahhhh. Very good question! So that the sins of many would be forgiven by relying on the sacrifice of His Son. In the OT, the Jews had to continually sacrifice lambs, birds, ect. They had to follow the law of Moses (i.e. don't eat pigs, don't heal on the sabbath, sacrifice this way). We believe that Jesus abolished the Mosiac law, and asked us to accept him personally. We see God's Son as a Gift out of love, and yes, we say that we (not God) needed his Son, for to fulfill the Mosiac law was fruitless. Jesus showed the Pharisees that even if they obeyed the law, they were still not in God! They were hypocrites!

Thank you for explaining to me the Muslim viewpoint that God is unique unlike any of his creations. I personally (as does the Catholic Church) do not believe that because you do not accept Jesus as God, you are automatically going hell. I believe that the following the two greatest commandemnts (from Jesus) 1) Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

As far as Jesus being both God and the Son of God at the same time, I do not see a problem with this either. We beleive in one God, with the Jesus and the Holy Spirit proceeding from this one God.
Thank you sir for the explanation. This is what I call a discussion/debate
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:04 PM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,063,970 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
The only thing that proves, is that man misunderstands and interprets things in error, not that the Bible is in error.

Look at it this way. If a muslim uses the Quran to say that honor killings or suicide bombings are right in God's eyes, but you say that is not what the Quran teaches... would you then conclude there are errors in the Quran, or that some men interpret it wrong?
yes but they have one word for Muhammad

and not only that but they also have one word for Jesus peace and blessings of Allaah be upon them


there is no misunderstands and interprets things in error for the basic knowledge in islam but in the branches yes

and jesus is the basic of the basic knowledge in christianity

and for the bible it is not because misunderstands and interprets things in error

but because the input in the bible is not integrated then the output from it is also not integrated
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