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Old 01-23-2009, 12:45 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,574,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
So is it, or is it not ok to beat your wife in islam?

No, kdbrich, it is not ok to BEAT your wife in Islam.
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:01 PM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,064,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
No, kdbrich, it is not ok to BEAT your wife in Islam.



the Quran says beat

but why do not you emphasize on the reasons
and the steps to cure this reasons


1- you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct,
2- admonish them (first),
3- (next) do not share their beds,
4- (and last) beat (tap) them (lightly);


the words that are between bracket are not from the arabic text of the Quran but only to clear out the word beat


the main purpose of this is to avoid the divorce and safe the family
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,876 posts, read 31,757,930 times
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In other words you consider the male to be superior to the female...That won't fly where I live.
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Old 01-23-2009, 04:07 PM
 
4,172 posts, read 5,991,415 times
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Is it OK for the wife to "lightly tap" the husband? What does the Quoran specifically say about this, or is it not covered? This question is not directed at anyone in particular.

Last edited by calmdude; 01-23-2009 at 05:18 PM..
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Old 01-23-2009, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,794,408 times
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If I was a woman married to a physically abusive man and he "lightly tapped" me I'd lightly tap him back with a bullet between the eyes (just a small light bullet) and claim self defense.
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:04 PM
 
4,253 posts, read 5,441,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
You are not wrong Lady Ice.

It appears from a couple of posts here that rape is mentioned/condoned in the bible. But that doesn't mean that Christians are doing it, even if some nut job Christian got up and gave the go ahead.

My Dh doesn't beat, hit, tap me for "discipline" purposes. (other purposes, well that's for another thread ).

And no, I don't believe that the majority of Muslim men are out there forcing their wives to have sex with them either, or hitting them because "Islam gives me the right to". At least not anyone I know.

And this guy's comments are from 2003 or something. I don't know why they'd be brought up now. I do think that the media loves to air stuff like this, the crazier sounding the better.

Now another poster mentioned something about the angels cursing the wife until the morning. I do not find such a thing a surprise if it is true. There is also another hadith that says, and someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, that if a muslim passes another muslim and says "As Salamu Alaykum" or Peace be upon you, and the other Muslim doesn't respond with the same, the angels curse that Muslim. So when you hear the angels curse so and so, it's not like the person is going to hell or some dire consequence like that.

I have heard so many men make reference to "never getting any" and this is not a compliment about their marital situation. Marriages seem to work better when each partner is giving and caring of the others desires, in general, not just regarding sex but any other needs/wants as well. Every day we do things for the ones we love that we might not really want to do (I for one skipped watching ER tonight because DH wanted to watch the Celtics game) give and take, from the mundane aspects of daily life on up.

tell me ladies, how many times have you have sex with your husbands when you really just didn't feel like it? We all have at one time or another, which leads to the question, why did you do it? I think we all know why, to get them to shut up is pretty much it. It's the only reason we'd do it if we didn't feel like it. Frankly, they were probably much happier than if we just said no. Yes it might be a sacrifice on our parts for a short period of time, but in the long run is that better for the marriage? Probably. And if you think I'm saying this only because I'm muslim, I can start a poll tomorrow of women that aren't muslim (namely my whole family) about how cranky/whiny/crabby their husbands get when they really wanted some but didn't get it. I've got one cousin that has told me she ensures a great weekend by "Saturday specials". I suppose if the man wanted sex ALL the time and the WIFE gave in ALL the time, Yes, this would get annoying as a wife. I said give and take, not give and give and give. This is where the husband would have to be considerate of his wife. (which is an islamic principle)
Thankyou for your insight into your religion. I'm happy for you that you have a good relationship within it.

I have to say that what you are saying about a woman submitting to her husband even when she doesn't feel like it is something altogether different from her being forced to do so even when she has said no and really meant it, that is rape. When you say yes or submit willingly then that is your choice. When that choice is taken away, that is when it becomes a criminal act and that is the issue at hand.

I would like to know what (if any) consequence would there be if you adamantly said no and refused for whatever reason. Or would you not think of doing such a thing? This is not an attack or a judgement, I just really want to understand what the core belief is.
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:22 PM
 
4,253 posts, read 5,441,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
All these posts.....i wonder if any of you have really..and i mean really..study in depth about Islam, its laws and the Quran? Islam and its prophet Muhammad places great emphasis on the treatment of women. There is even a chapter in the Quran titled Women where it goes in details about a woman's rights..some of them the western woman might not agree with but then the logic behind those laws the western woman can always communicate with her muslim counterpart (note with someone who knows Islam, not one of those 'modern liberal muslim' woman who while not really versed in her own religion, just follows the trend and condemn Islamic practices which doesn't suit her fancy..
And note why the fastest number of conversions to Islam in the West are by women...young and well-educated at that...they obviously must know something about Islam that attracts them to it..despite all the propagandas and mis-information thrown at Islam
You're right.I have not studied Islam and am too ignorant of what really is widely believed within the Islamic community. I am trying to find out and that is my purpose here.

Tell me, are these "modern liberal Muslim women" who "condemn Islamic practices which don't suit her fancy" the ones who assert there own basic human rights? Are they the ones questioning their husbands natural authority or ,even worse, actually thinking they are equal in every way to their man?

I am dubious of your claim that young well educated western women are converting to Islam in the numbers that you are suggesting. They would have to reject everything they have been bought up to believe from what I can gather from the posts on this thread.

Yes there seems to be a lot written on the "treatment" of women but from what I am seeing that "treatment" is something akin to how the master will treat his servant.
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,794,408 times
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I remember watching a documentary about the lives of women in Saudi Arabia and they interviewed a young woman who expressed her disgust with what it's really like being a woman in that country. You can't get a driver's license or even meet some other female friends in someplace like a shopping mall. You have to be in the prescense of a male relative who acts as a kind of supervisor. Women are completely dependent on men to do anything. They can't come and go as they please like the men can, they are clearly regarded as second class citizens. This is all because of the influence of Islam. I see this as being an extremely negative influence in society. As much as I dislike the conservative beliefs of American Fundamentalists they are lightyears ahead of the Muslims who have created this two tiered social system with the men at the top.
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:04 PM
 
995 posts, read 1,201,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Ice View Post
You're right.I have not studied Islam and am too ignorant of what really is widely believed within the Islamic community. I am trying to find out and that is my purpose here.

Tell me, are these "modern liberal Muslim women" who "condemn Islamic practices which don't suit her fancy" the ones who assert there own basic human rights? Are they the ones questioning their husbands natural authority or ,even worse, actually thinking they are equal in every way to their man?

I am dubious of your claim that young well educated western women are converting to Islam in the numbers that you are suggesting. They would have to reject everything they have been bought up to believe from what I can gather from the posts on this thread.

Yes there seems to be a lot written on the "treatment" of women but from what I am seeing that "treatment" is something akin to how the master will treat his servant.
Thank you Ladyice for your comments though i believe if you really want to find out more about Islam, this is not the place. The liberal ones that I was quoting, i was referring to their lack of knowledge about their own religion or at best they have a surface knowledge of it but yet try to make their own renderings about Islamic laws etc. Its like would you refer your court case to an attorney who is not well versed in the juridical laws to defend you? In every family, there must be a head and the man is always encourage to be that..lead the household but that doesn't mean the woman is inferior.
In Islam, men and women are equal in their own ways. Alike in many ways but different in others. As an example, a mother is placed on a higher level than a father. When the prophet pbuh was asked who a person must show reverance to, he answered the mother. When asked after that, he replied the mother and yet again the mother before he finally answered the father at the 4th time. As the saying goes in Islam, heaven lies underneath the footsteps of a mother. This is just an example.
Regarding the conversion rates, google it. Im not making it up. And the relationship between a man and a woman in Islam is not that of a master and slave. Read the biography of the prophet Muhammad to find out the perfect example of a muslim male behaves but read from a biographer who is not biased (which is pretty hard to find) Karen Armstrong's book would be an ideal start. An example for you to digest regarding the prophet's examplary behaviour. Though he had many wives, he stitches his own clothes and helps with the housework! No 'm king of the house business for him. This part i agree, not just muslim men but ALL men should follow his conduct
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,794,408 times
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braderjoe wrote:
Quote:
Though he had many wives, he stitches his own clothes and helps with the housework! No 'm king of the house business for him. This part i agree, not just muslim men but ALL men should follow his conduct
So muslim men should try to get a bunch of wives but help out with the dusting?
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