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Old 01-25-2009, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,892 posts, read 31,788,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
the split of the moon was one of the miracles of the prophet Mahhammad prayer and peace upon him
the split was observed in chine and India

sura 54
The hour drew nigh and the moon was rent in twain. (1)

And if they behold a portent they turn away and say: Prolonged illusion. (2)

They denied (the Truth) and followed their own lusts. Yet everything will come to a decision (3)

And surely there hath come unto them news whereof the purport should deter, (4)

Effective wisdom; but warnings avail not. (5)

So withdraw from them (O Muhammad) on the day when the Summoner summoneth unto a painful thing. (6)

With downcast eyes, they come forth from the graves as they were locusts spread abroad, (7)

Hastening toward the summoner; the disbelievers say: This is a hard day. (8)
When the discussion gets difficult why do you attempt to deflect to a different subject?
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:48 PM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,065,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
When the discussion gets difficult why do you attempt to deflect to a different subject?
i replied to post 159
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Old 01-26-2009, 01:02 AM
 
4,253 posts, read 5,445,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
the english quran is not the word of God but it is interpretation of the meaning
the arabic text is the actual word of God
there is no addition or subtraction in the arabic text
but any other language other than the arab there is addition usually it is put in brackets because it is interpretation of the meaning
the arabic text was not set by men it is the actual talks of God

but regarding the Bible i believe that there are so many interpretations was not in the original books of moses and jesus peace be upon them

Moonsun, would you agree with elwill's interpretation of the word beat. He says that it can also mean to leave.Do you see women as inferior to men? Is it a woman's duty to obey her husband in all of his wishes?
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Old 01-26-2009, 05:48 AM
 
787 posts, read 1,547,423 times
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Quote:
the english quran is not the word of God but it is interpretation of the meaning
the arabic text is the actual word of God
ahh... so it's not a religion for everyone because it is obviously too difficult to translate.

Quote:
I didn't make a judgment about their "level" of liberation. Sure you can say they are more liberated but coming from the US that is not my kind of liberation. Anytime you are forced to do this or banned from that, I have a hard time using the word liberation in the same sentence.
the original comment was that they were more liberated and you seemed to rebuke that by arguing that it's a matter of interpretation.
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:57 AM
 
995 posts, read 1,202,327 times
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Blue - For muslims, its very simple :
The Quran are the words of God. Words the angel Gabriel recited to the prophet which he then passed down to his companions word by word. Critics of Islam always tried to downplay Muhammad's illeteracy but there is the Genius of the Creator - making His messenger illeterate so he could not read or write and thus the people of his tribe could not accuse him of making it up.
The Hadiths are a collection of his words - in essence you can say that the Hadiths are like the Bible - works of men. Where there are truth and where there are some exagerations. That is why these Hadiths are sub-categorised into true hadiths and false hadiths.. Anyway, i won't go into too much. Just want to clarify the difference between the Quran and the Hadiths.
And Muhammad has no need for miracles, though he does perform them on certain occasions. But then miracles performed by the prophets are meant only for their people and these miracles disappear when the prophets passed away. Same goes for prophet Muhammad's except that the true miracle of Muhammad was the Quran - God's words which still is exactly the same as it was was revealed almost 1400 years ago. And only now, with the modern knowledge that we posses, can we see how truly miraculous the Quran is. The Big Bang, gravity, how the stars remain in their orbits etc etc...slowly all these are being uncovered by those with knowledge. Information which could not have been known that long ago. I wont go into details..too much stuff. All i can say is if you were to take a look at the statistics of those embracing Islam you will find a high percentage are highly educated, certainly ppl who are skeptical and analystic and research lots before jumping into something. In fact, you can even find a number of priests who have jumped ship.
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:07 AM
 
995 posts, read 1,202,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
ahh... so it's not a religion for everyone because it is obviously too difficult to translate.

the original comment was that they were more liberated and you seemed to rebuke that by arguing that it's a matter of interpretation.
Islam is a religion for all. Its not just a religion..it is a way of life. It teaches a person how to behave and interact etc all the steps required to be closer to Him. After all, God would not be fair if He were to send down his Holy Book and then tell the masses 'Here's is the Book - Now worship Me' without teaching them how to.
You can get a good translation by Yusof Ali easily Easy to read too.

There's a saying : Jesus (peace be upon him) taught a lot about how to treat others and how to worship God, but Muhammad (peace be upon him) brought a much bigger message about how to live!".

Regarding liberation - itsnt that one of those things where its a matter of personal interpretation? For example, feminists might pity those muslim women who wear headscrafs or even the veil and consider them oppressed. However, the shoe might fit the other shoe too as those muslim women who are veiled (and who have studied in-depth about their religion) might pity the feminists, for saying Women's Lib and yet in the same breath scrambling to get the latest outfits etc just to attract the opposite sex. Isn't that hyprocrital?
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:05 PM
 
787 posts, read 1,547,423 times
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Quote:
Its not just a religion..it is a way of life. It teaches a person how to behave and interact etc all the steps required to be closer to Him.
this goes for pretty much all religions, but I don't see the point in a supreme being creating a species with free thought then turning around and telling the species how to live as if they should basically be some sort of robot, and how to worship him/her/whatever as if this deity needs reassurance from its own creation about how powerful it is. It might as well make a tree that is formed in an eternal bowing position.

Quote:
You can get a good translation by Yusof Ali
good or perfect? Because if it were a religion for all, why is it so difficult to translate? Why is it that when ever there's some controversial concept of Islam (or any religion for that matter), that it is a misconception? What kind of person gives an instruction manual to someone that is very vague and can mean so many different things and then expect them to operate the corresponding machinery?

Quote:
There's a saying : Jesus (peace be upon him) taught a lot about how to treat others and how to worship God, but Muhammad (peace be upon him) brought a much bigger message about how to live!".
yes well, i don't agree with the way Muhammad lived his life and I'll leave it at that.

Quote:
Regarding liberation - itsnt that one of those things where its a matter of personal interpretation? For example, feminists might pity those muslim women who wear headscrafs or even the veil and consider them oppressed. However, the shoe might fit the other shoe too as those muslim women who are veiled (and who have studied in-depth about their religion) might pity the feminists, for saying Women's Lib and yet in the same breath scrambling to get the latest outfits etc just to attract the opposite sex. Isn't that hyprocrital?
I think you have a mis-informed idea of what feminism and what feminists is/are.
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Old 01-26-2009, 01:46 PM
 
995 posts, read 1,202,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
this goes for pretty much all religions, but I don't see the point in a supreme being creating a species with free thought then turning around and telling the species how to live as if they should basically be some sort of robot, and how to worship him/her/whatever as if this deity needs reassurance from its own creation about how powerful it is. It might as well make a tree that is formed in an eternal bowing position. .
God doesn't need reassurance. He created us specifically to worship him. If we're like robot, there wouldn't be so many ways of worship or the existence of atheists. All that is due to the free-will given by Him. That is what sets us apart from the angels. Like everything else, there has to be rules and order...i mean look at civilization in general...aren't there rules and regulations? What would be the consequence if there are none? No consequences? I very much doubt so.Just think..why is there an inane need in mankind to worship? In virtually every society...maybe its already been programmed by our Creator to be so; only the programming got messed up in some societies..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
good or perfect? Because if it were a religion for all, why is it so difficult to translate? Why is it that when ever there's some controversial concept of Islam (or any religion for that matter), that it is a misconception? What kind of person gives an instruction manual to someone that is very vague and can mean so many different things and then expect them to operate the corresponding machinery? .
We can only say good not perfect because only God and his words are perfect. It is not difficult to understand. It all depends on your mindset when you first intent to read or study it. Do it with an open mind and the returns are different then when your intent was already negative to begin with. An operating manual? Perhaps so..but picture it as an operating manual that can be used by the junior level technician up to the senior engineer. On the junior level, it teaches the very basic tenets. Once that is mastered only then can the junior level rise up a little bit higher on the scale. Its not meant to be gorged in one sitting/level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
yes well, i don't agree with the way Muhammad lived his life and I'll leave it at that. .
Too bad if you don't agree with the prophet's way of life. But can you honestly say that you had read his biography without any pre-conceived or hidden misconceptions or prejudice perhaps tainted by biographers who do not make any attempts to be objective?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
I think you have a mis-informed idea of what feminism and what feminists is/are.
Maybe I have..what i should have wrote down then is the 'modern' woman?...
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:04 PM
 
787 posts, read 1,547,423 times
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Quote:
God doesn't need reassurance. He created us specifically to worship him.
that's contradictory.

Quote:
Just think..why is there an inane need in mankind to worship?
"why?" indeed!

Quote:
We can only say good not perfect because only God and his words are perfect. It is not difficult to understand.
By the definition of an infallible being, his words would be perfect. But you say they are not difficult to understand - then why are there so many different interpretations of Islam? The very division within Islam would indicate that they are in fact, difficult to understand. And that's not even taking into account the problems when they're translated to other languages.

Quote:
Too bad if you don't agree with the prophet's way of life. But can you honestly say that you had read his biography without any pre-conceived or hidden misconceptions or prejudice perhaps tainted by biographers who do not make any attempts to be objective?
I have read his biography from Islamic-based websites and still not agreed with it.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:29 PM
 
49 posts, read 123,491 times
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Default Beating and Raping

Some people will say anything to boost their religions membership.
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