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Old 01-27-2009, 11:37 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,472,025 times
Reputation: 7280

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
statistics between countries are always a bit iffy. Another fault with those statistics I can imagine is the definition of rape may vary from country to country. For example, the varying legal age of consent, whether it's rape within a marriage, etc will not likely be uniform.
Agreed. I think statistics in this case can really only be a guide as there are so many variables.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:02 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,014 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Where...Any country dominated by Muslims.

Can't dispute the news article I posted, so you are going to dismiss it?

Here are a couple more for you to dismiss...

According to the Arab News newspaper, the 19-year-old woman was gang-raped 14 times in an attack in Qatif in the eastern province a year-and-a-half ago.

Seven men were found guilty of the rape and sentenced to prison terms ranging from just under a year to five years. The woman was sentenced to 200 lashes because she was in an unrelated man's car.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Saudi gang rape sentence 'unjust'
The woman was sentenced to 200 lashes because she was in an unrelated man's car.
The rape victim was punished for violating Saudi Arabia's laws on segregation that forbid unrelated men and women from associating with each other.

after all , i don't justify the decesion and i'm not a lawyer and i don't know the details of what happened in the court .

the only fact that i can agree with is that this woman punished for violating another law , not because she is a victim of rape

Quote:
About 90 per cent of Pakistan's rape victims who seek justice end up in prison because they failed to present credible witnesses as required under the laws there.
i can't see reliable informations to respond .

Quote:
A recent US state department human rights report, quoting the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, says the "Hadood Ordinances" require presenting male Muslim witnesses in court. The ordinance, promulgated in 1979, also states that marital rape is not a crime
martial rape isn't crime in pakistan !! ( i wonder why they didn't say in muslim's countries ) . anyway it considered as crime in other muslim's countries
the only choice you have is to proof your point from quran and sunnah

Quote:
A Somali girl who said she had been raped has been stoned to death in Somalia after being accused of adultery, a human rights group has said.
this one raised before , and i said that they are ignorants
i really admirer that no_one can quote something from quran or sunnah or quote from muslims's scholars or references to islmamic sites regarding to the victim of rape

Quote:
Amnesty International said in a press release on Friday that the victim, Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow, had been 13 years old - not 23 as earlier reports had suggested.

Duhulow was stoned to death on October 27 by dozens of men in a stadium packed with 1,000 spectators in the southern port city of Kismayo, Amnesty International and Somali media reported, citing witnesses.
i completely disagree with these behaviours
it happened by armed group of terrorists and ignorant and barbaric muslims . it is not islamic


Quote:
Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses. Women who allege rape, without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men who subsequently develop a conscience, are actually confessing to having sex. If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery. Rape is virtually impossible to prove under Islamic law (Sharia) and even in more moderate countries. If the man claims that the act was consensual sex, there is very little that the woman can do to refute this. Islam places the burden of avoiding sexual encounters of any sort on the woman.

"Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah." Sura (24:13)

Because of the evidence requirements of Islamic law: the victim's testimony is disallowed, and she must produce four male Muslim witnesses who saw the act. Anyone accused of rape is considered to have been involved in zina (adultery/fornication). The accuser (victim) must then produce four credible male witnesses to give testimony against the accused that he has raped the accuser. If the accuser fails to meet the witness requirement, then the accuser, usually a female, is by default charged of zina and, if convicted, given the punishment prescribed under the Hudood law. If the female does not bring up the accusation of rape, then the woman is by default charged with zina.

The reasons for punishing a rape victim | Full Movie

My comment....It seems that there is no way a rape victim can win.
i can see how it's hard for you to back up your proofs from islamic sites .

i haope for you to get the answers from islamic sites ( that's if you realy honest in your researches )

Are Raped Women Asked to Bring Four Witnesses?
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503548970&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar (broken link)


Are Raped Women Punished in Islam?
http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015456&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE (broken link)


peace

Last edited by elwill; 01-28-2009 at 02:18 AM..
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:19 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,892,825 times
Reputation: 771
Default Bit of interesting News

This was a bit of interesting news. Good Grief!!! What were those officials thinking ???

Iran: Men vs. Women Soccer Game Draws Punishment

Iran: Men vs. women soccer game draws punishment - World Soccer - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=ap-iran-forbiddensoccer&prove=ap&type=lgns - broken link)
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:08 AM
 
787 posts, read 1,546,730 times
Reputation: 476
Quote:
The youth team beat the women 7-0 in a game Vatan-e-Emrooz described as ‘historic.’
Yeah! Go the men!
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:23 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
397 posts, read 896,924 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
I'm not really understanding what your problem is. Have I not just said the same thing as you in different words? In which case how is it a false analogy unless yours is also. Raping and beating your significant other is NOT JUSTIFIABLE FOR ANY REASON religious or otherwise and I'm not convinced that a woman beaten and raped is any better off in a country where it is condoned by law or not. In either country the woman is still beaten and raped and it's still unacceptable behaviour.

At this point it would appear to me that you are simply arguing for the sake of argument. **shrug** whatever floats your boat.
So, you do not see the difference between countries that legally condone such behavior and those that don't?

Of course a victim of rape suffers just as much in Australia as she does in an Islamic country IN THE ACT. But let's see, what are her rights after the act? In one country, she has the option of pressing charges, receiving support and counseling, possible vindication of her rights etc. In the other, she may (i) receive no assistance or (ii) even worse, fear for her life in reporting it.

I don't know why you cannot see the difference. The Australian woman is vastly better off. And you should do well to remember that, sitting in your Australian homeland with all the comforts of secular protection, while so many women suffer under the yoke of religious oppression. No one speaks for them, and people who are willing to sacrifice these women to appease the Islamic world and be politically correct should be ashamed of themselves.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,883 posts, read 31,761,982 times
Reputation: 12627
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
The woman was sentenced to 200 lashes because she was in an unrelated man's car.
The rape victim was punished for violating Saudi Arabia's laws on segregation that forbid unrelated men and women from associating with each other.

after all , i don't justify the decesion and i'm not a lawyer and i don't know the details of what happened in the court .

the only fact that i can agree with is that this woman punished for violating another law , not because she is a victim of rape


i can't see reliable informations to respond .


martial rape isn't crime in pakistan !! ( i wonder why they didn't say in muslim's countries ) . anyway it considered as crime in other muslim's countries
the only choice you have is to proof your point from quran and sunnah


this one raised before , and i said that they are ignorants
i really admirer that no_one can quote something from quran or sunnah or quote from muslims's scholars or references to islmamic sites regarding to the victim of rape


i completely disagree with these behaviours
it happened by armed group of terrorists and ignorant and barbaric muslims . it is not islamic




i can see how it's hard for you to back up your proofs from islamic sites .

i haope for you to get the answers from islamic sites ( that's if you realy honest in your researches )

Are Raped Women Asked to Bring Four Witnesses?
Are Raped Women Asked to Bring Four Witnesses? - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503548970&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar - broken link)


Are Raped Women Punished in Islam?
Are Raped Women Punished in Islam? - Reading Islam.com - Ask About Islam (http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015456&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE - broken link)


peace

I really don't give a damn what is or is not in the koran. All these events I mentioned happened to or were caused by Muslims in Islamic countries.....
Examples like these are very common though out the Islamic world. The point I'm trying to make here is that in these counties many cases of rape go unreported because the woman is seen as the cause of the crime.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:06 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,472,025 times
Reputation: 7280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen_SDCA View Post
So, you do not see the difference between countries that legally condone such behavior and those that don't?

Of course a victim of rape suffers just as much in Australia as she does in an Islamic country IN THE ACT. But let's see, what are her rights after the act? In one country, she has the option of pressing charges, receiving support and counseling, possible vindication of her rights etc. In the other, she may (i) receive no assistance or (ii) even worse, fear for her life in reporting it.

I don't know why you cannot see the difference. The Australian woman is vastly better off. And you should do well to remember that, sitting in your Australian homeland with all the comforts of secular protection, while so many women suffer under the yoke of religious oppression. No one speaks for them, and people who are willing to sacrifice these women to appease the Islamic world and be politically correct should be ashamed of themselves.
Oh I'm getting it now. Silly me! You have an agenda. That's why you're busy assuming so much about what I think so you can rail against my perceived flaws and further your soapbox stand.

Nice work.

I don't think we have anything further to discuss because I don't deal with irrational people that twist things to suit their own ends. Suffice to say you won't beat extremists by being extremist, much like you won't win a war on terror by terrorizing.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:43 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,014 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I really don't give a damn what is or is not in the koran. All these events I mentioned happened to or were caused by Muslims in Islamic countries.....
Examples like these are very common though out the Islamic world. The point I'm trying to make here is that in these counties many cases of rape go unreported because the woman is seen as the cause of the crime.
you even never lived within muslims countries to make such assumptions .
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,883 posts, read 31,761,982 times
Reputation: 12627
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
you even never lived within muslims countries to make such assumptions .
They are not assumptions...They are facts.
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Old 01-29-2009, 06:52 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
397 posts, read 896,924 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
Oh I'm getting it now. Silly me! You have an agenda. That's why you're busy assuming so much about what I think so you can rail against my perceived flaws and further your soapbox stand.

Nice work.

I don't think we have anything further to discuss because I don't deal with irrational people that twist things to suit their own ends. Suffice to say you won't beat extremists by being extremist, much like you won't win a war on terror by terrorizing.
Everyone has an agenda. But mine is not especially extremist. What is extremist about advocating a secular form of government in which people enjoy freedom of religion, freedom of speech, no government endorsement of any religion, equal rights etc., with the only limit that no one may use their particular faith to impede the freedom of others.

I am still more interested in finding out how you support your statement that a raped woman in Australia is no better off than one in an Islamic country. Since you clearly want to prove too much, what is your agenda?
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