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Old 01-22-2009, 11:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Nice attempt at a cheap shot. But I'm not aware of anywhere in the Bible where beating or raping of a one's wife is encouraged or allowed.
There is no law or permission to beat ones wife or mistreat ones mate. The problem is that the Bible is very candid about recording the failings of God's people, including it's leaders. Most civilizations tend to gloss over or even omit such failures, but they were recorded for a reason and that was to teach what happens when laws are not followed. The problem is that the hatred is so intense that any flaw, real or imagined will be sought out as a weapon for the further pursuit of that hatred.

The Mosaic Law did allow for the proper treatment of people, even the alien resident who was a non Isrealite. Jesus himself treated with respect and dignity women who otherwise would and were treated like dirt by the Jewish Religious Clergy.

Now admittedly after the death of the Apostles, and as they even forewarned, the apostacy did happen to Christianity and corrupted the orignial teachings of Christ of direction of the apostles. That being the case, then I feel all that corrupt conduct is fair game for anyone who wants to expose it, even right down to the present day. The laws , principles and standards themselves are'nt to fault, but the heavy burden of blame , bloodguilt, etc must fall squarely on the shoulders of even today's Clergy.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Isn't he just saying what the koran teaches?
What about the NT stuff about women not speaking in church, and if they want to learn they have to go home and speak to their husbands in private about it?
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:21 PM
 
Location: egypt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Ice View Post
What I would really like to know though is this. Is it a common belief in the Muslim community and just not talked about that much or is it as extreme as I would really like to believe? Perhaps a Muslim could enlighten me.
If a man calls his wife to bed and she refuses, and then he sleeps angry, the angels shall curse her until he awakens.” [an unquestionably authentic hadith, related by both Bukhari and Muslims, as well as numerous others]


Unfortunately some igonarant muslim men think they can force their wives to have sex with them. They argue that ‘since it is obligatory for a women to respond to her husbands call to have sex , they can force their wives to have sex with them if they refuse their request’

but This is wrong and this sort of behaviour has no place in Islam!

If something is obligatory to do for a muslim, does this mean we are allowed to force a muslim to do so, if he/she doesnt perform the obligated things in Islam.

Like for example, it is obligatory for a muslim to pray 5 times a day, does this mean we can force and abuse/ torture a muslim to peform his prayer?

If someone doesnt fast during Ramadan, are we muslims allowed to force him to do? Of course not. The prophet (swa) never forced anyone to do something.

We know it is obligatory for a person to follow the religion of Islam if he/she wants to get to Jannah, but we can't force them

So when the prophet said: "If a man invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses, then the angels send their curses on her till morning
Does this mean the husband can force his wive into sex/marital rape ? Noooooooo!

The wife clearly knows that she is wrong, when she rejects her husband request (she should fullfil his sexuel needs). But the husband can’t compulse or force his wife into sex/marital rape. The husband has the right to insist that she should fullfil his right, and the husband has the right to be angry at her for this (in a proper way), even the husband has the right to divorce her when she repeatedly refuses his request, however he still hasn’t the right in Islam to force her into sex/marital rape !, if he had the right to do, then certainly the prophet would mention it, but the prophet didn’t. The reason for this is that forcing someone doesn’t belong and doesn’t fit in the peacefull teachings of Islam.


Secondly:
It is well know that forcing someone to sex in almost all cases goes together with bringing physcial and/or emotional harm to a person, if a husband beats/scares his wife to force her to have sex, then he clearly abuses his wife physical and emotional. In this case the husband will commit a major sin, he’s violating the sunnah of the prophet swa and the law of Allah swt in the Quran:


O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good (Qu’ran An-nisa 19)

the prophet mohammed (pbuh) said
The most perfect of believers are those most perfect of character; and the best of you are the best of you to your spouses.” [Tirmidhi, Ibn Hibban]

Last edited by elwill; 01-22-2009 at 12:42 PM..
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:27 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,042,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Ice View Post
I think if they want to live in their own country under these laws then so be it. That's another issue. I'm not sure about America but here in Australia we have often got these stories of clerics teaching these types of things which are against Australian law, but are virtually impossible to police because they happen in the home.

Which brings to mind another question. If the teachings of a religion go against the laws of the country of residence which takes precedence?
if it happen in the home and the government know nothing about what happenes in home
how did you know that it happenes ?
why do you supposed that they actually did that in thier homes ?
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,924 posts, read 31,841,828 times
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You are not doing very well defending Islam by saying that it is a man's right to have his sexual wishes fulfilled, and his wife is wrong to refuse...Seems like the wife is considered property to me.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:44 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,042,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
You are not doing very well defending Islam by saying that it is a man's right to have his sexual wishes fulfilled, and his wife is wrong to refuse...Seems like the wife is considered property to me.
okey , may be the men should ask his wive before marriage , if she will fulfill his sexual wishes !!!!!!!!!

anyway i confess that man have the right to have his sexual wishes fulfilled , it's better than to find someone else out of marriage to fulfill his desire
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,924 posts, read 31,841,828 times
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So by the same token, does the wife have the same right to sex on demand and is it wrong of the husband to refuse?
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:59 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,042,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
So by the same token, does the wife have the same right to sex on demand and is it wrong of the husband to refuse?
absolutely
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Old 01-22-2009, 01:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
absolutely
What if it's the woman's sexual desire to wait until tomorrow for sex?
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Old 01-22-2009, 02:01 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,042,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
What if it's the woman's sexual desire to wait until tomorrow for sex?
husband should to be lenient and tolerant off course
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