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Old 01-22-2009, 06:44 PM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,241,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post

Nope. In any event, any quote you pull out of context to quote was written to Jews living in the desert 3000-4000 years ago under a different covenant, in a different culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post

Context is everything. You might find the meaning changes a lot based on it.
I'll have to remember you said this.
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:15 PM
 
4,253 posts, read 5,447,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
i see it as love, mercy , partnership and every one must have his rights

And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.

Do you believe those rights to be equal though? What's good for one is good for the other?

What I am trying to understand is if this man really does represent Islam or if he is an extremist, a radical. Is he speaking for the majority of Islamic men only most will not voice it publicly?
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
It's unfortunate that men like this and Sheikh Hilali are able to garner the media attention they do and I cannot help but wonder what purpose it serves other than to create disharmony.

Frankly with views such as the ones expressed in this article I would say that Abu Ham-za should return to his country of origin if he's not prepared to follow the laws of the land he calls home. I'd love to see him speak out against the laws in his country of birth and see how far he got. I'm quite sure there are heinous penalties for doing so. Here he'll get a nice slap on the wrist, embarass all the upstanding Muslim Australians that have been here peacefully and law abiding for decades and stir up a hornets nest amongst those who are easily swayed by such blatant **** stirring. It's like the Muslim version of Paris Hilton for media coveting. All talk, no substance. Famous for being controversial.

It's offensive to those of us that live here both Muslim and non-Muslim alike. Follow the law of the land or get out. No need to bring your crappy baggage with you.

Just some thoughts from a sick and tired athiest.
I remember the uproar In Australia when Sheikh Hilaly said in a sermon about 2 years ago that scantily clad women were like uncovered meat attracting cats.

To be honest, I would be insulted if I were a Muslim man because by implication it would mean that he thinks that Muslim men have as little control over themselves around women as cats have around raw meat.

These guys are like the Jerry Falwells of the Muslim faith. Yecccchhk...
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
I remember the uproar In Australia when Sheikh Hilaly said in a sermon about 2 years ago that scantily clad women were like uncovered meat attracting cats.

To be honest, I would be insulted if I were a Muslim man because by implication it would mean that he thinks that Muslim men have as little control over themselves around women as cats have around raw meat.

These guys are like the Jerry Falwells of the Muslim faith. Yecccchhk...
I find it frustrating that of all the muslims living in this country we have to hear from Hilali and now it looks like this new bloke wants his two minutes of fame too.

I also find it frustrating that the media continually picks up on these extreme attention seeking behaviours and perpetuates controversy and divisiveness.

I liken it to paying too much attention to the likes of Corey Delaney or Shane Warne or Wayne Carey et al. I mean what possible benefit to society giving these idiots the media attention they crave?

One can only hope that people are smart enough to see through the bulldust.

I'm really wondering what's sparked this latest interest in Abu Hamza in the media. Some of these comments he's made are years old, so it must be a slow news day with the Herald Sun. I wait with baited breath to hear what Andrew Bolte has to say when he wades in.
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Maple Shade, NJ
123 posts, read 251,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Ice View Post
Do you believe those rights to be equal though? What's good for one is good for the other?

What I am trying to understand is if this man really does represent Islam or if he is an extremist, a radical. Is he speaking for the majority of Islamic men only most will not voice it publicly?
Lady Ice, the short awnser to your question without quoting many passages is: YES he is a RADICAL muslim and the majority of muslims will NOT agree with what he is saying.
Most of the time, these types of people grow up learning behavior characteristics that are predominant within their country or even home town. They then go out and twist passages of the Holy books, or even just take one sentence without taking the complete chapter or paragraph to say: "Look this sentence proves my theory!" whereas the complete paragraph may negate the sentence contained therein.

Now All the muslims I know and met during my Military duty, my sisters conversion to Islam and even my own investigations to learn about it to see what it is really about; they would not agree with this sheik because the women are supposed to be treated with respect and dignity above all else.
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:23 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,482,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Ice View Post
I remember the incident you are talking about and yes, I'm off to bed too.
Struggling to find any evidence of the moderate Muslim guy I mentioned. Seems google can't cope with "moderate muslim" as a search.
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Ice View Post
Now the guy says Australians are all boozers, addicted to gambling and prostitutes!!

Boozy Aussies hooked on gambling: cleric

Besides the fact that this is an over-broad generalization (although he may not be far off about the drinking) there is the fact that he chooses to live in this country. Why doesn't he go and live in a country that is more in line with his religious beliefs? Why enjoy the benefits of living in a free democratic society and then spend your days condemning it?
I guess he won't mind then if the rest of us assume that all muslims are hell bent on beating and raping their wives and bombing everybody else then?
Clearly if we're gonna go with the sweeping generalizations then Aussies don't sound so bad.

This guy is not sounding like he's the brightest crayon in the box and very obviously has an agenda, not that I think it will do him much good.

I think he needs to find somewhere to live more in keeping with his ideals and lifestyle. How he missed the point entirely about Australia I do not know but I really can't see his plans taking off here.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:01 PM
 
4,510 posts, read 4,118,972 times
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Well, he's got nothing on the hillbillies
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:34 PM
 
4,253 posts, read 5,447,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanrose20 View Post
Lady Ice, the short awnser to your question without quoting many passages is: YES he is a RADICAL muslim and the majority of muslims will NOT agree with what he is saying.
Most of the time, these types of people grow up learning behavior characteristics that are predominant within their country or even home town. They then go out and twist passages of the Holy books, or even just take one sentence without taking the complete chapter or paragraph to say: "Look this sentence proves my theory!" whereas the complete paragraph may negate the sentence contained therein.

Now All the muslims I know and met during my Military duty, my sisters conversion to Islam and even my own investigations to learn about it to see what it is really about; they would not agree with this sheik because the women are supposed to be treated with respect and dignity above all else.

Thankyou. I was hoping to hear an answer like this. I think that common sense tells me that this is the case but I was getting concerned that maybe I was wrong and this really is what is commonly believed in the Muslim faith.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:12 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,581,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Ice View Post
Thankyou. I was hoping to hear an answer like this. I think that common sense tells me that this is the case but I was getting concerned that maybe I was wrong and this really is what is commonly believed in the Muslim faith.
You are not wrong Lady Ice.

It appears from a couple of posts here that rape is mentioned/condoned in the bible. But that doesn't mean that Christians are doing it, even if some nut job Christian got up and gave the go ahead.

My Dh doesn't beat, hit, tap me for "discipline" purposes. (other purposes, well that's for another thread ).

And no, I don't believe that the majority of Muslim men are out there forcing their wives to have sex with them either, or hitting them because "Islam gives me the right to". At least not anyone I know.

And this guy's comments are from 2003 or something. I don't know why they'd be brought up now. I do think that the media loves to air stuff like this, the crazier sounding the better.

Now another poster mentioned something about the angels cursing the wife until the morning. I do not find such a thing a surprise if it is true. There is also another hadith that says, and someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, that if a muslim passes another muslim and says "As Salamu Alaykum" or Peace be upon you, and the other Muslim doesn't respond with the same, the angels curse that Muslim. So when you hear the angels curse so and so, it's not like the person is going to hell or some dire consequence like that.

I have heard so many men make reference to "never getting any" and this is not a compliment about their marital situation. Marriages seem to work better when each partner is giving and caring of the others desires, in general, not just regarding sex but any other needs/wants as well. Every day we do things for the ones we love that we might not really want to do (I for one skipped watching ER tonight because DH wanted to watch the Celtics game) give and take, from the mundane aspects of daily life on up.

tell me ladies, how many times have you have sex with your husbands when you really just didn't feel like it? We all have at one time or another, which leads to the question, why did you do it? I think we all know why, to get them to shut up is pretty much it. It's the only reason we'd do it if we didn't feel like it. Frankly, they were probably much happier than if we just said no. Yes it might be a sacrifice on our parts for a short period of time, but in the long run is that better for the marriage? Probably. And if you think I'm saying this only because I'm muslim, I can start a poll tomorrow of women that aren't muslim (namely my whole family) about how cranky/whiny/crabby their husbands get when they really wanted some but didn't get it. I've got one cousin that has told me she ensures a great weekend by "Saturday specials". I suppose if the man wanted sex ALL the time and the WIFE gave in ALL the time, Yes, this would get annoying as a wife. I said give and take, not give and give and give. This is where the husband would have to be considerate of his wife. (which is an islamic principle)
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