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Old 03-04-2009, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
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Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
I disagree, I believe that since the European enlightenment, most Christian areas have banned the killing or forced-conversion non-Christians. Prior to that many Christians did have religious orders to kill non-Christians as is evidenced by order from the Council of Toledo in 681 targeted at civil authorities requiring them to behead those guilty of non-Christian pratices of any sort.
Elizabeth has a fair point, student. You don't really see an Islamic enlightenment coming, do you?
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:00 AM
 
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Sigh....doesn't anyone ever read for example a totally unbiased biography of Islam or its prophet? Instead what we get are folks who read only stuff propogated by people who obviously hate Islam for whatever reason. I recommend the biography of the Prophet written by Karen Armstrong, a former nun and no she's not a muslim convert
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
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Originally Posted by LBear View Post
That is the end goal of Islam. The Koran teaches that Allah can only return to earth once Muslims take over the world, then and only then will Allah return. That is what the Jihad is all about.

Zardari said in a television interview that the Taliban had expanded their presence to a "huge amount" of Pakistan and were eyeing a takeover of the state. "We're fighting for the survival of Pakistan. We're not fighting for the survival of anybody else," Zardari said, according to a transcript of his remarks that CBS television said it would air Sunday.

Moderator cut: inflammatory comments


YouTube - Islam: What the West Needs to Know - Trailer

Amazon.com: Religion of Peace?: Islam's War Against the World: Gregory M. Davis: Books

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Pakistan has somehow become the epicentre of Islamic fundamentalism.

I can't help but think of a retarded British mistake half a century ago.

If there has to be a solution to upset this whole applecart, there only is ONE - us annexing it back and rewinding things to the status quo ante.

As much absurd as this might sound now, with ten more years of anarchy, bloodshed and poverty, the Pakistanis won't mind re-uniting with their long lost brothers. Just think about how many problems this will seek to dissolve
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
Pakistan has somehow become the epicentre of Islamic fundamentalism. I can't help but think of a retarded British mistake half a century ago.
Not just in Pakistan...there's the middle-east, Africa... the evils of colonialism
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
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Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
Sigh....doesn't anyone ever read for example a totally unbiased biography of Islam or its prophet? Instead what we get are folks who read only stuff propogated by people who obviously hate Islam for whatever reason. I recommend the biography of the Prophet written by Karen Armstrong, a former nun and no she's not a muslim convert
Please pass this on to those flag-burning islamic boys I am pretty sure you'll agree they need it the most.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
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Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
Not just in Pakistan...there's the middle-east, Africa... the evils of colonialism
Joe, nobody in the ME is trying to sabotage the very existence of the state. You already have states where there are tyrants in total control, even if they are extreme.

Pakistan is getting out of control. Just 200 miles north of Islamabad, YES the capital, there's Swat which has already been taken over by the Taliban and the established government in I has not been able to stop that.

Did you hear about the dancer who was slaughtered and drawn through the streets of Swat? She apparently begged the boys to just shoot her and not slit her throat as they were going to. At least they listened to her.

Nobody is in control in Pakistan today. The situation is grave. Here's a state in struggle for its existence.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
Please pass this on to those flag-burning islamic boys I am pretty sure you'll agree they need it the most.
Yup those boys need a re-education..i agree.. I would also of course include the neocons and those who at the slightest flutter immediately blame all muslims for anything that happen...
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
Joe, nobody in the ME is trying to sabotage the very existence of the state. You already have states where there are tyrants in total control, even if they are extreme.

Pakistan is getting out of control. Just 200 miles north of Islamabad, YES the capital, there's Swat which has already been taken over by the Taliban and the established government in I has not been able to stop that.

Did you hear about the dancer who was slaughtered and drawn through the streets of Swat? She apparently begged the boys to just shoot her and not slit her throat as they were going to. At least they listened to her.

Nobody is in control in Pakistan today. The situation is grave. Here's a state in struggle for its existence.
You're right about the Pakistan situation...agree with you. Its not Islam that is the problem though its the people there whose interpretation of it is screwed up
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
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Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
Yup those boys need a re-education..i agree.. I would also of course include the neocons and those who at the slightest flutter immediately blame all muslims for anything that happen...
Well, the neocons will definitely be out of context if Islam performs internal house cleaning.

Imagine democracies in every islamic country, where a parliament votes on bills and policies. There's debate on what is right and what is wrong. And there's a 50% chance that every mishap is thereby avoided. Say, stoning a prostitute, there will at least be 20 voices against it. Things like a two-third majority and still be a Allah-obsessive Islamic state.

But that isn't the case. Islam has been incapable of self-reform. You have gun-wielding convoys, clerics on the loose, a silent moderate population, systematic disintegration of organized leadership (exactly why Palestine is in disarray today, because over the last 80 years, the extremists sought to eradicate diplomatic leaders)

The Papacy ran riot across the middle ages. But there was renaissance, reformation, enlightenment and political dialogue, though I think it's gone a bit too far. But burning and execution are things of the past with a constantly evolving Christianity or other religions for that matter. Islam has been incapable of this reform. So what exactly is preventing this reform? We only need to look inside and forget about the neocons

And again, will neocons sound sane if they run after a democracy trying to build a nuclear weapon? That would inherently become the will of a democratic islamic electorate. Terms like self-defence, by the will of the people.

On other lines, just 50 more years, when the oil runs out, these guys are mincemeat. I would be very interested to learn of the state of Islam then.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
Imagine democracies in every islamic country, where a parliament votes on bills and policies. There's debate on what is right and what is wrong. And there's a 50% chance that every mishap is thereby avoided. Say, stoning a prostitute, there will at least be 20 voices against it. Things like a two-third majority and still be a Allah-obsessive Islamic state.

But that isn't the case. Islam has been incapable of self-reform. You have gun-wielding convoys, clerics on the loose, a silent moderate population, systematic disintegration of organized leadership (exactly why Palestine is in disarray today, because over the last 80 years, the extremists sought to eradicate diplomatic leaders)
If Islam was followed and practiced the way the Prophet taught there would not be much issues. What is practiced in the so-called Islamic countries are just bastardised versions - mixed with dictatorship, corruption, money all of course with complicity from the so-called beacons of enlightenment and democracy - the West. Take Iraq as an example. So what is missing is true Islamic governance and proper application of Sharia laws. This will not happen in those countries as the leaders find it more profitable to rule by psuedo-Islamic principles. But I have this feeling that the emergence of such a state will not sit well with the western powers.
As for Palestine..have you not heard of zionism? Its links with the Nazis etc..I'm sure you know that Hamas is a foster child of Israel which ended up biting the hand that fed it (and well deserved too!) so its not just a simple case of extremists eradicating diplomatic leaders. Nothing is that black and white over there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
The Papacy ran riot across the middle ages. But there was renaissance, reformation, enlightenment and political dialogue, though I think it's gone a bit too far. But burning and execution are things of the past with a constantly evolving Christianity or other religions for that matter. Islam has been incapable of this reform. So what exactly is preventing this reform? We only need to look inside and forget about the neocons
Yes the papacy ran riot during those dark ages but who was it that brought the light back there? Islam. Islam is in a slum at this moment..but that will pass. What its adherents need to do is to ensure that the true principals of Islamic governance and the laws that goes with it is put to practice. Which is not easy, i admit, as the current parties masquerading as Islamic-based are currently on top - for now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
And again, will neocons sound sane if they run after a democracy trying to build a nuclear weapon? That would inherently become the will of a democratic islamic electorate. Terms like self-defence, by the will of the people.
Of course when a jewish state illegally posses such arms and had even considered using it during the last war, no objections from them..and this from the most aggresive state in that region..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
On other lines, just 50 more years, when the oil runs out, these guys are mincemeat. I would be very interested to learn of the state of Islam then.
As you have just stated ' when the oil runs out' - so is it only ok for western states to research and aim for nuclear energy when the oil runs out? Islam itself doesn't run on oil. You will be surprised at how a person's faith gets stronger as conditions around him deteriorates.
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