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Old 02-26-2009, 07:28 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,284,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
do you agree with me that it's very hard , may be impossible to prevent the crime 100% , all we can do is to decrease it ?

i think that if you need to prevent the honour killing crimes , so islamic society have to follow the culture of west as (opening adultery , sex out of marriage and bear childrens out of marriage )
if you succeed to make it okey for the daughter to live with her boyfriend and bear children out of marriage in islamic societies .
in this mattar there will be no honour killing because it will not anger any father or any brother if thier sister or daughters commit adultery .

if you wanna to accuse the islam religion for the honour killing crimes , so to make it correctly and fairly accuse it for prohibiting adultery
may be the only guilt with islam is that it prohibit adultery , do you disagree with islam for prohibiting adultery ?

and plz camping , if there are people justifyed the honour killing , so they are minority according to the islamic world
so , plz don't generalize your accuses against islam
Do you not trust muslim women to live according to the Quron without fear of death?
Are not muslim women moral on their accord? Can they not be trusted?
Because what I am reading here (and please correct me if I am getting you wrong) is that without the threat of honor killings, muslim women will start whoring it up, having babies without marriage and basically becoming westernized
Personally, I think that muslim women are smarter then that, and have more self control than that.
I in no way defend all parts of my society, and I in no way think that the wests hypersexualization is a good thing.
But as I have said before elwill....I would rather my daughters lived free as whores then lived chastely as slaves.
Perhaps that is the fundemental difference between my culture and yours.

And, I did not generalize, I have been very careful in saying that only certain muslims in certain parts of the world engage in honor killings -- but by no means is it only muslims that do it.
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,256,451 times
Reputation: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
Ok, so you held it. What material was it made from? How many pieces was it in? Was the veil in front removable, so just the eyes could be seen? and was the piece that covers below the eyes removable?

Just curious since you have such first hand knowledge of the garment.

You have got to be kidding me?



I made the point like three times already........Now you ask what my point is?

The point is, the men over there do not walk around like the men over here, in shorts and tank tops or no shirts. They wear pants and shirts or long robes. To expect women to be able to dress like women here when the men don't would be culturally ignorant. He was not dressed like any American man. How many American men do you see walking around in dress shirts and pants ALL the time in 100 degree weather????

Got the point now?

Nope.....the original post has nothing to do with how people dress.

That is NOT a link about HONOR KILLINGS IN THE US. It is about the increase in reports of domestic abuse from Muslim women over a period of time, and that it may be under reported, which I think it is HIGHLY likely that it is under reported. The article points out that the murders of the two Egyptian girls in Texas appear to be the first Honor Killings in the US.

There are many more and some that have gone unreported according to various articles. Not that it matters....the trend can occur any where. The article was about "moderate" Muslims becoming more violent.

Do you want me to get links for all the idiotic interviews I have seen on the news and post them here? I don't know any Muslims that would agree with this woman. What does this have to do with honor killings anyway?



"Muslim Clerics LIKELY preached...."

Nice.

Now we are criticizing clerics, making assumptions of what imams here in the US "LIKELY" preached.

Can you find any instances of an Imam preaching that this was the woman's fault? I doubt it as many have come forward in support of the woman and bringing the message that domestic violence is against Islam.

I can look on youtube for you.

Once again, it has been a pleasure.
Ditto.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:11 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,348 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Do you not trust muslim women to live according to the Quron without fear of death?
Are not muslim women moral on their accord? Can they not be trusted?
Because what I am reading here (and please correct me if I am getting you wrong) is that without the threat of honor killings, muslim women will start whoring it up, having babies without marriage and basically becoming westernized
Personally, I think that muslim women are smarter then that, and have more self control than that.
I in no way defend all parts of my society, and I in no way think that the wests hypersexualization is a good thing.
But as I have said before elwill....I would rather my daughters lived free as whores then lived chastely as slaves.
Perhaps that is the fundemental difference between my culture and yours.

And, I did not generalize, I have been very careful in saying that only certain muslims in certain parts of the world engage in honor killings -- but by no means is it only muslims that do it.

well , you actually getting me wrong , i didn't mean to jusify the honour killing or even to accuse the women to be not trusted
i allready said my openion that it's a big sin in islam to kill anyone for any reason

i was discuss the issue from different point of view

i will try to describe my point again and i hope if mommytotwo understood what i mean to explain it to you

everyone be influenced with the society he lives within , so if adultery in some places bring a shame so we have to expect bad reactions from some people towards it
but if adultery in other places not bring a shame , so it will be normal situation or daily practices from the people in this society , it will as a one eat his lunch , you will not expect such crimes there becuse of normal practices

so regardless of religion , the culture control the reaction of some people to commit such crimes which absolutely against islam

but may be these crimes happened mostly in muslims country , i agree but why ?

christians and many other religions gave up the morality teaching of thier religion , although jesus prohibit adultery , you found more than 90% of christians commited it

but islam differ , they can't give up the teaching of thier religion so easily , so that the culture of modesty will still excist in muslims societies and being this practice to be shamfull will not change , and as long as the someone bring the shame for his family as long as you found someone angry , and when someone get anger he could kill .
but is it islamic teaching for someone to get anger or to kill ? no

but in west it dosn't happenes that someone even get anger because his sister slept with her boyfriend , in the west they may be get anger and kill each other for more sillier reasons
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,874 posts, read 31,747,081 times
Reputation: 12622
Why do seldom if ever hear of Muslim husbands being the victims of honor killings? They probably commit adultery more often than the wives.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,507,068 times
Reputation: 258
Why couldn't this be a message from cncracer, presuming your views are very similar on the topic of disfunctional families and education conflict in unpbringing? 'Cncracer' is my MAN.
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Old 02-26-2009, 02:14 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,572,840 times
Reputation: 4979
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
Ditto.
The article was about "moderate" Muslims becoming more violent.
NO it wasn't!

Did you actually read the article?
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,256,451 times
Reputation: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Why do seldom if ever hear of Muslim husbands being the victims of honor killings? They probably commit adultery more often than the wives.
That brings up a good point. Why is it that men can commit adultery, incest and rape and not dishonor their family? Why is it overlooked by the Muslim community?
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,256,451 times
Reputation: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
NO it wasn't!

Did you actually read the article?
I posted it and read three or four versions of the same article.
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,791,559 times
Reputation: 5454
MrsMtns wrote:
Quote:
That brings up a good point. Why is it that men can commit adultery, incest and rape and not dishonor their family? Why is it overlooked by the Muslim community?
Actually I completely agree with your thoughts on this one. Women have been punished in places like Saudi Arabia even when they were victims of rape because they happened to be in the company of an unrelated male. I believe a woman was sentenced to 200 lashes for such an offense and of course it's barbaric.
The reason I've been critical of the OP on this thread is because I feel that the motivation is to attack anything that's not Christian but I think you deserve some credit for pointing out the obvious fact that Muslim men and women are treated very differently in Muslim societies.
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:00 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,572,840 times
Reputation: 4979
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
I posted it and read three or four versions of the same article.
I wouldn't admit that if I were you.

First you say it was an article about Honor killings in the US.

Then you say it's about moderate muslims becoming increasingly violent.

Then you say you read three or four versions of the same article.

If there are three or four versions, it's NOT the same article.

And you still did not get what it's about.
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