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Old 03-15-2009, 12:42 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
No those aren't proofs.

Okay, so again NO EYE WITNESSES? How is this any different from any other false prophet? No way to prove it, just his word. Sorry I don't buy it.
what we have but words !
even eyewitnesses are not more than words in books , right !
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,871,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
what we have but words !
even eyewitnesses are not more than words in books , right !
So, if a woman is raped, she has to have 4 men witness her attack to make it true. But if Muhammad says something, he needs no eyewitness to make it true.
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,256,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
what we have but words !
even eyewitnesses are not more than words in books , right !
So we should just throw out ALL of the Encyclopedias and History books? Yeah that sounds realistic. History is confirmed through witnesses. Plural.....meaning more than one person witnesses an event and confirms it.

Today you cannot hold a Guinness World Record without it being witnessed. Same rule applies.
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,256,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
So, if a woman is raped, she has to have 4 men witness her attack to make it true. But if Muhammad says something, he needs no eyewitness to make it true.
Doesn't quite sound right does it?
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:02 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,647 posts, read 74,585,953 times
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some aspects of islam are beautiful.
however, i got a problem with its non pacifist basis. force and violence has a role to play in its doctrine. christians are violent too, but they preach against it and make an attempt to restrain it. the violent overthrow of host countries is the #1 stumbling block to islam, this issue keeps coming up.
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:08 PM
 
5,006 posts, read 13,852,924 times
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All great religions were first of all inspired by God. The very fact that they have inspired a great many people tells me this and others. This does not mean to me that everything that these great men have written was inspired.

When people decide that it is only their religion that is inspired by God I feel bad for them and for those they come into contact with. But I am sure that even the Islamic religion believes that they are the only true religion. I think there is good and bad in all religions, and you have to just sift through it all to find out what is true and what isn't. I believe it would boil down to love and charity.

Instead of judging, why not spend this time learning what is common in both religions? Instead of playing this game of, my religion is better than yours?

Last edited by Mattie Jo; 03-15-2009 at 01:20 PM..
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:08 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
So, if a woman is raped, she has to have 4 men witness her attack to make it true. But if Muhammad says something, he needs no eyewitness to make it true.
i meant to say that existense of eyewitness will not change your view
if i said to you that mohammed (pbuh) splitted the moon among many of eyewitness , will you trust his miracle . or simply it will change nothing !!!!!

by the way raped crime dosn't need any witnesses , it's the adultery which needs 4 witnesses
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,871,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i meant to say that existense of eyewitness will not change your view
if i said to you that mohammed (pbuh) splitted the moon among many of eyewitness , will you trust his miracle . or simply it will change nothing !!!!!

by the way raped crime dosn't need any witnesses , it's the adultery which needs 4 witnesses
You're right, it wouldn't change my view. But, what MrsMtns was saying, I believe, is that Jesus' miracles were all witnesses by someone. Muhammad just came and told of his miracles.

I apologize on the rape/adultery error. The point still stands that even Muslims believe witnesses are essential, correct?
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,256,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i meant to say that existense of eyewitness will not change your view
if i said to you that mohammed (pbuh) splitted the moon among many of eyewitness , will you trust his miracle . or simply it will change nothing !!!!!

by the way raped crime dosn't need any witnesses , it's the adultery which needs 4 witnesses
What planet are you from?


Question:
Why are rape victims punished by Islamic courts as adulterers?



Summary Answer:


Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses (that ain't gonna happen) or if there are four male witnesses. Women who allege rape, without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men who subsequently develop a conscience, are actually confessing to having sex. If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery.



The Qur'an:

Sura 2:282 - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court (there is no "he said/she said" gridlock in Islam).

Sura (24:4) - "And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses (to adultery), flog them..."

Sura (24:13) - "Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah."



From the Hadith:

Bukhari (5:59:462) - The background for the Qur'anic requirement of four witnesses to adultery. Muhammad's favorite wife, Aisha, was accused of cheating [on her polygamous husband]. Three witnesses corroborated the event, but Muhammad did not want to accept it, and so established the arbitrary rule that four witnesses are required.


Additional Notes:

Rape is virtually impossible to prove under Islamic law (Sharia) and even in more moderate countries. If the man claims that the act was consensual sex, there is very little that the woman can do to refute this. Islam places the burden of avoiding sexual encounters of any sort on the woman and punishes her accordingly.

Last edited by MrsMtnsOnTheMind; 03-15-2009 at 01:28 PM..
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,256,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
You're right, it wouldn't change my view. But, what MrsMtns was saying, I believe, is that Jesus' miracles were all witnesses by someone. Muhammad just came and told of his miracles.

I apologize on the rape/adultery error. The point still stands that even Muslims believe witnesses are essential, correct?
No, you were right. They have a way to twist things to their advantage. The woman can't prove she was raped because the filthy men who watched won't come forward and admit their sin, so since she has semen in her (not by her own accord).....she will be tried as an adulterer according to Islamic law. It's the way they keep their women in bondage. No justice is guaranteed so they have to submit and be raped or face the penalty for adultery. Nice huh?
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