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Old 03-15-2009, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,258,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
It's called "common courtesy" for the reader. You want people to read your message but you don't break it up so it's READABLE.
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
3,441 posts, read 5,006,634 times
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Free Ali!!!

Free Ali!!!

Free Ali!!!
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:14 AM
 
995 posts, read 1,202,327 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
Jesus and Moses received direct word from God, unlike Muhammad who supposdly received God's word from an angel, never directly from God..
Sorry to disappoint you. But Muhammad pbuh was invited by God to see Him during the miraculous journey of Ishraj & Mihraj. Gabriel accompanied the Prophet past the 7 levels of heaven,where the Prophet met some of his peers such as Adam, Moses,Aaron,Jesus & Abraham. They journeyed beyond the 7th heaven to a place where Gabriel instructed the Prophet to journey by himself as even he,Gabriel, could not go beyond that point. That place was where Muhammad pbuh met our Creator and where he was given the Commandment to initiate the 5 daily prayers. His meetings with his fellow prophets makes interesting reading...maybe anoher time

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
Jesus/ Muhammad

Death
Jesus died and rose from the dead Muhammad died and stayed dead.
Sorry. When did Jesus died? Jesus did not die. It was not him on the cross. He was raised up by God before his enemies got to him and is now in the heavens above waiting for the green light to return to earth and battle the Anti-Christ. A man can only die once. In order to be resurrected, one has to die first and Jesus did not die so he must return to earth to continue with his life and then die as any normal man dies in order to be resurrected on the day of judgment. If Jesus had died then he cannot return to earth as you have only 1 life to live on this earth and once you die you can never return back to life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
Fighting Jesus never fought Muhammad fought many many times
Jesus pbuh was a Great Prophet and Messenger of God but he did not fulfil his mission. Muhammad pbuh fought but only after given permission by God after years of tolerating cruelties inflicted on the muslims by the non-believers of Quraish. He was not the first prophet to fight in the way of God. Remember Moses? The children of Israel were the first group ordered to fight in the way by God. Before that, with the other prophets, it was mainly, divine punishment from the Creator after repeated warnings by His prophets were ignored by the masses. Anyway, fighting was only a last resort. And some of the fighting was because the tribes who had a peace treaty with the muslims had broken the pact or make pacts with other tribes to try and destroy the muslims. Something had to be done as the muslims then were still small in numbers and pretty vulnerable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
Hearing from God When Jesus heard from God he went to the desert to be tempted and began his ministry with boldness, (Mark 1:14-15). When Muhammad heard from God (supposedly through an angel) he cowered, was uncertain, and wanted to commit suicide (Quran 74:1-5)
You claim Jesus to be God yet 'he went to the desert to be tempted?" What kind of a God is this that can be tempted by the devil? The jews were waiting for 'the' messiah and Jesus pbuh never claimed that he was 'the' messiah. As for Muhammad's pbuh reaction - well what will your reaction be if you in the same boat as him? You cower, you become uncertain, was it a dream? was it real? But one thing the Prophet never did was attempting to commit suicide.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:15 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I don't know elwill --- not war, but it does smack of hypocrisy to tout Islam as the religion of peace while turning a blind eye to those who have perverted it into the religion of blood.
You can't have it both ways.
i allready trying to find rational solutions with you

what can muslims do but to refute such allegations , what can muslims do but to condemn such crimes happens in the name of islam ?

are you have rational solution which will be accepted universally . and which muslims should to be responsible on muslims criems in the world ?
what about other crimes commited in the name of christianity (i know that you ar not christian but i share them to find solution ) ? who is responsible for the crimes of J.B who consider his mission to be holy mission ?

if you condemned whole muslims because of group of them , it will be unjust judgement

you can't judge on entire religion by picking up odd cases happens in muslims countries , even if it was saudia
if you wanna to judge the relegion so it should to be through discussion the religion itself
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:40 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,293,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i allready trying to find rational solutions with you

what can muslims do but to refute such allegations , what can muslims do but to condemn such crimes happens in the name of islam ?

are you have rational solution which will be accepted universally . and which muslims should to be responsible on muslims criems in the world ?
what about other crimes commited in the name of christianity (i know that you ar not christian but i share them to find solution ) ? who is responsible for the crimes of J.B who consider his mission to be holy mission ?

if you condemned whole muslims because of group of them , it will be unjust judgement

you can't judge on entire religion by picking up odd cases happens in muslims countries , even if it was saudia
if you wanna to judge the relegion so it should to be through discussion the religion itself
Who's JB?

I understand what you are saying, and I don't have a solution for it either. I don't believe that all muslims behave or believe in the Islam that is practiced by Afghanistan, Saudi and a few other countries. I do believe that they are probably embarrassed by them.
Look, my only in depth knowledge of religion would be catholicism. In catholicism, there is a heirarchy that holds true for all catholics around the world. If some catholics start interpreting the religion in a way that is not consistent with the teachings of rome, the pope will excommunicate them, but only after mediation and attempts to get those people 'back on board' so to speak.
I do understand that Islam doesn't have a 'boss' or a governing board of mullahs to ensure that everyone is on the same page. Or do they? I really am not sure how that works. If there was such a thing in Islam, and they were turning a blind eye to the abuses in Afghanistan for example, then they would be basically accepting their interpretation of Islam. If there is not such a thing, then maybe there ought to be.
Other then that, I don't know. What is the take on the mistreatment of women on al jazeera? Or any widely read muslim publications?
Honestly, elwill -- I am not trying to provoke you, I really am trying to understand this.
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Old 03-15-2009, 11:07 AM
 
995 posts, read 1,202,327 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
Identity

Jesus claimed to be God (John 8:24; 8:58) as well as a man.
Jesus claimed to be the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).

Muhammad claimed to be a man. Instructions Received From God the Father (John 5:19) Allegedly from an angel .
Claimed. Supposedly. Allegedly. You made these allegations against Muhammad pbuh. These allegations can also be claimed against Jesus pbuh. Jesus never claimed to be God or His son. What you are reading from, are written by the hands of men who take liberties with the truth and distort and even fabricate without any fear of the consequences. Were there any witnesses to Paul's claim that he was 'divinely' inspired and 'saw' Jesus? What you are practising is not the religion brought by Jesus but something fabricated by Paul himself. In fact, you should call yourselves Paulians not Christians. Jesus pbuh taught one how to pray. Muhammad pbuh taught one how to live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
Killing
Jesus never killed anyone
Muhammad killed many .
Pray tell us, how many did Muhammad pbuh killed? Let the record show that the only person who was killed by Muhammad's pbuh sword was when that person tried to kill the unsuspecting Prophet from behind and was killed when the still unsuspecting Prophet drew out his sword and turned causing the point to pierce the attacker. Again let me ask you. Give us some proof to show the total of men killed by Muhammad pbuh. True, the prophet Jesus pbuh never killed anyone but then so did the prophet Adam or Abraham etc. Its just that he was not in a position of strength. Afterall his disciples were very few throughout his short lifetime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828;7885207 [B
Life[/b]
Jesus had the power to take life, but never did. He restored it.

Muhammad had the power to take it, but he never restored it.

No one ever died in Jesus' presence Many people died in Muhammad's presence -- he killed them. .
Jesus pbuh can revive the dead or heal the blind but (a very firm but) only with God's permission. If none was given, he could not perform any of that. He was just a prophet like the others before him ie is why to quote an example : When he was asked about the end of the world, he confessed that he did not know when it will happen because only God knows. A pretty strange answer if he was God don't you think?

Muhammad pbuh. A noble character. An example for Men to follow. Once he went to the district of Taif to propegate about Islam, accompanied by a companion. The people there would not listen and worst still drove him out with stones, even the children mimiced the adults. As Muhammad pbuh and his companion ran to escape the hail of stones, he was holding his face and head. Some of the stones did find their target. Later, when they stopped some distance away, his companion asked the Prophet about his behaviour as they were running. The Prophet explained that he was making sure that not a drop of his blood spill on the ground because if it did, the village of Taif would have been destroyed by the Angels on God's commands. In fact, the Angels told him that all that it would take to destroy Taif was just to give the signal to them. But Muhammad pbuh only prayed that people of Taif be given respite in the hope that their future generations would be more accessible to Islam.
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:56 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,493,289 times
Reputation: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
Sorry to disappoint you. But Muhammad pbuh was invited by God to see Him during the miraculous journey of Ishraj & Mihraj. Gabriel accompanied the Prophet past the 7 levels of heaven,where the Prophet met some of his peers such as Adam, Moses,Aaron,Jesus & Abraham. They journeyed beyond the 7th heaven to a place where Gabriel instructed the Prophet to journey by himself as even he,Gabriel, could not go beyond that point. That place was where Muhammad pbuh met our Creator and where he was given the Commandment to initiate the 5 daily prayers. His meetings with his fellow prophets makes interesting reading...maybe anoher time


Sorry. When did Jesus died? Jesus did not die. It was not him on the cross. He was raised up by God before his enemies got to him and is now in the heavens above waiting for the green light to return to earth and battle the Anti-Christ. A man can only die once. In order to be resurrected, one has to die first and Jesus did not die so he must return to earth to continue with his life and then die as any normal man dies in order to be resurrected on the day of judgment. If Jesus had died then he cannot return to earth as you have only 1 life to live on this earth and once you die you can never return back to life.

Yes that was Jesus on the cross, that is also funny that people want to say that Jesus did not die on the cross, because they relize that someone who died on a cross and rose from the dead, must be God. So, they don't want to give Jesus credit for doing it.


Jesus pbuh was a Great Prophet and Messenger of God but he did not fulfil his mission. Muhammad pbuh fought but only after given permission by God after years of tolerating cruelties inflicted on the muslims by the non-believers of Quraish. He was not the first prophet to fight in the way of God. Remember Moses? The children of Israel were the first group ordered to fight in the way by God. Before that, with the other prophets, it was mainly, divine punishment from the Creator after repeated warnings by His prophets were ignored by the masses. Anyway, fighting was only a last resort. And some of the fighting was because the tribes who had a peace treaty with the muslims had broken the pact or make pacts with other tribes to try and destroy the muslims. Something had to be done as the muslims then were still small in numbers and pretty vulnerable.

You claim Jesus to be God yet 'he went to the desert to be tempted?" What kind of a God is this that can be tempted by the devil? The jews were waiting for 'the' messiah and Jesus pbuh never claimed that he was 'the' messiah. As for Muhammad's pbuh reaction - well what will your reaction be if you in the same boat as him? You cower, you become uncertain, was it a dream? was it real? But one thing the Prophet never did was attempting to commit suicide.

That's funny Muhammad is the only one who claims to have went through 7 heavens, another sign of a false prophet.

Yes that was Jesus on the cross, that is also funny that people want to say that Jesus did not die on the cross, because they realize that someone who died on a cross and rose from the dead, must be God. So, they don't want to give Jesus credit for doing it

What is your proof that it was not Jesus, You dont have any! Jesus died on the cross. You sound so confused and obviously don't even know what you are talking about.


All through out the bible Jesus is shown to have fulfilled His mission, unlike Muhammad.

He is the kind of God that came in flesh, and died on the cross, and rose again. Muhammad, died, and guess what still dead.

Muhammad never did anything on the scale as Jesus. End of Story.
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:06 PM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,065,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
It's called "common courtesy" for the reader. You want people to read your message but you don't break it up so it's READABLE.
i agree
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:52 PM
 
4 posts, read 5,692 times
Reputation: 12
Thing to judge the part of his vision

To judge the thing we have to read well by the free
The call charges without evidence, I do not trust this act

Western man we have known we the Arabs it is fair to any issue
Valtkono well as

This proposed site for reading about Islam and then want to governance, including
SULTAN ISLAMIC LINKS, Discover Islam, Muslim people, Holy Quran and Islamic Religion

This conversation I wanted to mail to those who
alkadmi2009@windowslive.com
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:39 AM
 
995 posts, read 1,202,327 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
Yes that was Jesus on the cross, that is also funny that people want to say that Jesus did not die on the cross, because they realize that someone who died on a cross and rose from the dead, must be God. So, they don't want to give Jesus credit for doing it

What is your proof that it was not Jesus, You dont have any! Jesus died on the cross. You sound so confused and obviously don't even know what you are talking about.


All through out the bible Jesus is shown to have fulfilled His mission, unlike Muhammad.

He is the kind of God that came in flesh, and died on the cross, and rose again. Muhammad, died, and guess what still dead.

Muhammad never did anything on the scale as Jesus. End of Story.
I'm sorry Shawn but where is the proof that it was Jesus a.s on the cross. If the guy was Jesus a.s why then did he cry out "Eli Eli La Ma Sabaktani" (My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?) He is God and he is asking himself? He doesn't know the plan? The truth of the matter is that Most scholars date the earliest New Testament books as being written 25-30 years after the supposed death of Jesus. Nobody knows who wrote the Bible. Several books are attributed to certain authors, but many of these are false attributions, and many books had multiple authors.

I'm sorry yet again but what mission did Jesus a.s fulfilled? He was cut short in his prime (if you believe that it was him on the cross) What you are practising now is more to the teachings of one Saul later named Paul. A person who has never met Jesus a.s in person and thus not one of his 12 apostles.

Yes Muhammad s.a.w died - as did all of God's other messengers such as Moses, Joseph, Abraham etc. They are Men like us, only sinless as should be ones who were chosen by the Creator to lead the flock.

Muhammad s.a.w never did anything on the scale of Jesus a.s? That is laughable He was supremely successful on the spiritual, social, political,religious scale. In so short a time, Muhammad s.a.w and until his death, Islam reached out to all 4 corners of the world and currently has about 1.5billion believers worldwide. Unlike Jesus, where there is no really clear cut picture of his life, there are many historical records about the last prophet so one gets a clear picture of the way he leads his life. We know virtually everything about this wonderful man, his family, his companions etc. There maybe also 1+ billion christians but how many are really practising christians? - ie go to church, pray etc.

An interesting note :In Islam, during the daily 5 prayers it is compulsory to recite the acknowledgment of Allah being the Sole Lord and that Muhammad s.a.w is the final prophet of God. If one does not recite that then one's prayers are invalid. So even as we debate now, somewhere in this wide world, the call to prayer has been sounded and the faithful are preparing or indeed praying right now and reciting the kalimah that There is only One God and Muhammad is His Messenger. And when that timezone is passed, the call to prayer will yet again sound out at a different timezone and this will keep going on as the earth turns on its axis till the end of time! Thus fulfilling God's promise to Muhammad s.a.w.
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