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Old 03-16-2009, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,511,361 times
Reputation: 258

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Happy St. Patrick's Day, BraderJoe. Did you belong to the Irish church before you converted to What is it? Islamic fundamentalism?
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:44 PM
 
995 posts, read 1,203,065 times
Reputation: 117
My..my...I'm sure Miss Emily, your 1st grade teacher would be sooo proud of you Here goes :

Are you serious? Jesus didn't predate Judaism. There's no question of trinity among the "tribe" which did the passover and kept the sabbath.

Right you are. There was never any trinity before Paul came into the picture. What was worshipped was One God. So why the drastic change then? it doesn't make sense.

And I'd very interested to know if Adam "submitted himself" to God more than Eve and her fruit.

In Islam, that mistake was committed by both Adam & Eve, not just Eve alone. So it was never just Eve's sin in eating the fruit. The woman is never blamed for that.

And let's go by your game. Homosexuality has been around since the age of the Greeks and even before. Please tell me they considered themselves as homosexual as the homosexuals of today.

No games or mind-games involved when it comes to Islam. If you read your good book better, you'd know that homosexuality originated in the city inhabited by the prophet Lot a.s. Lot as the prophet was preaching tireless to those people to follow the true path and that women were created for men and vice-versa. Those people knew that what they were doing were against the norm but yet they still continue doing it. Well..you know the end-result to that right.

And better treated in Islamic culture? For God's sake, if this were true, the crusades would never have happened, right? Does better treatment account for demolitions, desecration of the holy sepulchre, vandalization of pilgrims?

I think you sorely need to read up on your history. Do you know who were the most affected by the crusades? It was the Byzantines, fellow christians of the crusaders who suffer from the greed of the crusaders. Those crusaders,except for a few, were not motivated by religion but rather the more mundane attractions of riches and land. If you read your history better, you will know that when the Jerusalem capitulated, virtually the entire non-christian inhabitants city were murdered by the knights - jews and muslims. The city was literally knee-deep in blood. Contrast that to when the city was retaken by the muslim armies. Read up.

Why not Noah? I am sure he submitted to God and built the Ark. Right, Ishmael does not exist yet. I am pretty sure you will shift the co-ordinates to Noah had Ishmael been on the Ark amongst Noah's sons. You pretty much have your quadrant all right, mate

Well..duh...need I put in all the Prophets/Messenger names? Of course Noah was one. You can't expect me to put in all the major Messengers of God in every post do you?

You plagiarize again. Just like Mohammed. I am pretty sure where I heard this before. There's this lanky, spexed guy on youtube who gives away ridiculous discourses. Again, the same gibber on God, goddess, Gods. You and him both have got the fundamental concept wrong.

The English language has parts of speech. You have nouns, verbs, adjectives etc. The English language is as much pagan as its parents - greek, latin, sanskrit, saraswati script and the whole nine yards. Christianity was taken to England by the likes of Augustine and the language is certainly not gonna get radical about gender/quantity.

Grammar is human, it's not divine and it's still grammar, God is masculine, Goddess is feminine. Going by your logic, it looks like you will root for the abolition of the word 'dog' for it's a mirror image of God?

Masculine? Feminine? That is why we'd prefer something other than God as God did not make us in His image. But that doesn't mean its not allowed to use the term God. Ok..i won't debate on the nuances of languages as anyway English is not my mother tongue.

I wonder how God who loves all his children, can pit one of his sons against another. Frankly I find the concept of God, the loving father of all, sending his own son into the earth, who in turn kills himself, rather than leading the people into the light from the darkness "by the bloody sword", more convincing.

I see. Then would you deny the previous prophets such as Moses, Aaron, David etc since they too have fought in the way of God? If you do, that means essentially you have rejected the OT. If you say not, than you agree that the prophets before Jesus acted more like Muhammad s.a.w in fighting in the way of God

You can quote whatever you want but the bottom line is that Mohammed was a politician. He commanded armies, he killed people (good or bad), he did anything and everything which any worldly commander did. I can easily tell he was the prototype of someone like yasser arafat. Yasser was everything Mohammad was. He was a leader/ he was a commander/ he was hyper-religious of course, he hated the jews, he killed people. Some call yasser a terrorist. How different is Mohammed? If Yasser gets a time machine, he can be Mohammed.

Ah yes...the general sweeping statements about Muhammad s.a.w generally performed by those who haven't really studied about him/his life. And nice touch, attempting to link him to Yasser Arafat. Why not make it more modern by attempting to link the Prophet to Hamas? Pathetic Tell you what - Make a detailed research then tell me how many jewish lives were lost at the hands of christians vs at the hands of muslims? Lets make 1500AD as the starting point. Lets see which is the religion of peace.

Naive people perform an exact copy. Everybody knows that.

If it an exact copy, the Quran would be agreeing to everything, errors included but it did not.

I think I just read the Islamic version of Mein Kampf Lite.

Oh nice....now your pathetic attempts to link the Quran to Hitler's book... I'm waiting with eager breath for your thesis on how Hitler was actually a muslim.

Adam? What was even the need for Jesus had Adam been greater? He'd have disciplined Eve and have been a jew-hating Mohammed in his own right

You have not answered the question. You are just bypassing it. Muhammad s.a.w was not a jew hater. But again...the last refuge for the ill-infomed - slander

Jesus was no creation. God cannot be a creation.

Yes. God cannot be a creation. Jesus was created - by God.

Considering that you and I call out to the same God the Father, I am pretty sure I will be forgiven if you term me as being prodigally un-Islamic.

Besides, I'd prefer Jesus Christ any day to a militarist, despotic, polygamist, manipulative, God-calling impostor. The crusaders said let's go kill in the name of God. Mohammed and his followers said let's go kill in the name of God. Both of them have blood on their hands. Remember Dante's circle for fake prophets?

Again your ignorance of the life of Muhammad s.a.w is breathtaking. And from a history graduate too.

Sermon on the mount, fish and bread, Lazarus, miracles, love, forgiveness, humility, sacrifice, YES
Politics, sword, armies, factions, wine, wives, concubines, ethnic cleansing, sectarian slaughter, no thanks!

Ohh? Are you talking about the crusaders?
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,511,361 times
Reputation: 258
Well noted. I take a copy of the whole text into my personal documentations. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:59 PM
 
995 posts, read 1,203,065 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
Happy St. Patrick's Day, BraderJoe. Did you belong to the Irish church before you converted to What is it? Islamic fundamentalism?
Thank you tgnostic. You're a bright spot with your philosophical posts here. I might not understand some of what is written but I enjoyed them.

There is no such thing as liberal Islam or Fundamental Islam. The west just doesn't get that. You'll be surprised to know that Im dressed in a 'modern' fashion, work for an American firm. i don't have a beard and I listen to Metallica in my free moments...but I regard myself as being conservative
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,511,361 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
There is no such thing as liberal Islam or Fundamental Islam.[
Except at the Islamic Information Centre where they are conservative as well. Oh well, my shrink didn't do it. Did yours do it? I just don't know why the knowledge was so to regard that group now as left wing. A little zone of theocracy. I'll check now.
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,020 posts, read 25,599,820 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
My..my...I'm sure Miss Emily, your 1st grade teacher would be sooo proud of you Here goes :

Are you serious? Jesus didn't predate Judaism. There's no question of trinity among the "tribe" which did the passover and kept the sabbath.

Right you are. There was never any trinity before Paul came into the picture. What was worshipped was One God. So why the drastic change then? it doesn't make sense.

And I'd very interested to know if Adam "submitted himself" to God more than Eve and her fruit.

In Islam, that mistake was committed by both Adam & Eve, not just Eve alone. So it was never just Eve's sin in eating the fruit. The woman is never blamed for that.

And let's go by your game. Homosexuality has been around since the age of the Greeks and even before. Please tell me they considered themselves as homosexual as the homosexuals of today.

No games or mind-games involved when it comes to Islam. If you read your good book better, you'd know that homosexuality originated in the city inhabited by the prophet Lot a.s. Lot as the prophet was preaching tireless to those people to follow the true path and that women were created for men and vice-versa. Those people knew that what they were doing were against the norm but yet they still continue doing it. Well..you know the end-result to that right.

And better treated in Islamic culture? For God's sake, if this were true, the crusades would never have happened, right? Does better treatment account for demolitions, desecration of the holy sepulchre, vandalization of pilgrims?

I think you sorely need to read up on your history. Do you know who were the most affected by the crusades? It was the Byzantines, fellow christians of the crusaders who suffer from the greed of the crusaders. Those crusaders,except for a few, were not motivated by religion but rather the more mundane attractions of riches and land. If you read your history better, you will know that when the Jerusalem capitulated, virtually the entire non-christian inhabitants city were murdered by the knights - jews and muslims. The city was literally knee-deep in blood. Contrast that to when the city was retaken by the muslim armies. Read up.

Why not Noah? I am sure he submitted to God and built the Ark. Right, Ishmael does not exist yet. I am pretty sure you will shift the co-ordinates to Noah had Ishmael been on the Ark amongst Noah's sons. You pretty much have your quadrant all right, mate

Well..duh...need I put in all the Prophets/Messenger names? Of course Noah was one. You can't expect me to put in all the major Messengers of God in every post do you?

You plagiarize again. Just like Mohammed. I am pretty sure where I heard this before. There's this lanky, spexed guy on youtube who gives away ridiculous discourses. Again, the same gibber on God, goddess, Gods. You and him both have got the fundamental concept wrong.

The English language has parts of speech. You have nouns, verbs, adjectives etc. The English language is as much pagan as its parents - greek, latin, sanskrit, saraswati script and the whole nine yards. Christianity was taken to England by the likes of Augustine and the language is certainly not gonna get radical about gender/quantity.

Grammar is human, it's not divine and it's still grammar, God is masculine, Goddess is feminine. Going by your logic, it looks like you will root for the abolition of the word 'dog' for it's a mirror image of God?

Masculine? Feminine? That is why we'd prefer something other than God as God did not make us in His image. But that doesn't mean its not allowed to use the term God. Ok..i won't debate on the nuances of languages as anyway English is not my mother tongue.

I wonder how God who loves all his children, can pit one of his sons against another. Frankly I find the concept of God, the loving father of all, sending his own son into the earth, who in turn kills himself, rather than leading the people into the light from the darkness "by the bloody sword", more convincing.

I see. Then would you deny the previous prophets such as Moses, Aaron, David etc since they too have fought in the way of God? If you do, that means essentially you have rejected the OT. If you say not, than you agree that the prophets before Jesus acted more like Muhammad s.a.w in fighting in the way of God

You can quote whatever you want but the bottom line is that Mohammed was a politician. He commanded armies, he killed people (good or bad), he did anything and everything which any worldly commander did. I can easily tell he was the prototype of someone like yasser arafat. Yasser was everything Mohammad was. He was a leader/ he was a commander/ he was hyper-religious of course, he hated the jews, he killed people. Some call yasser a terrorist. How different is Mohammed? If Yasser gets a time machine, he can be Mohammed.

Ah yes...the general sweeping statements about Muhammad s.a.w generally performed by those who haven't really studied about him/his life. And nice touch, attempting to link him to Yasser Arafat. Why not make it more modern by attempting to link the Prophet to Hamas? Pathetic Tell you what - Make a detailed research then tell me how many jewish lives were lost at the hands of christians vs at the hands of muslims? Lets make 1500AD as the starting point. Lets see which is the religion of peace.

Naive people perform an exact copy. Everybody knows that.

If it an exact copy, the Quran would be agreeing to everything, errors included but it did not.

I think I just read the Islamic version of Mein Kampf Lite.

Oh nice....now your pathetic attempts to link the Quran to Hitler's book... I'm waiting with eager breath for your thesis on how Hitler was actually a muslim.

Adam? What was even the need for Jesus had Adam been greater? He'd have disciplined Eve and have been a jew-hating Mohammed in his own right

You have not answered the question. You are just bypassing it. Muhammad s.a.w was not a jew hater. But again...the last refuge for the ill-infomed - slander

Jesus was no creation. God cannot be a creation.

Yes. God cannot be a creation. Jesus was created - by God.

Considering that you and I call out to the same God the Father, I am pretty sure I will be forgiven if you term me as being prodigally un-Islamic.

Besides, I'd prefer Jesus Christ any day to a militarist, despotic, polygamist, manipulative, God-calling impostor. The crusaders said let's go kill in the name of God. Mohammed and his followers said let's go kill in the name of God. Both of them have blood on their hands. Remember Dante's circle for fake prophets?

Again your ignorance of the life of Muhammad s.a.w is breathtaking. And from a history graduate too.

Sermon on the mount, fish and bread, Lazarus, miracles, love, forgiveness, humility, sacrifice, YES
Politics, sword, armies, factions, wine, wives, concubines, ethnic cleansing, sectarian slaughter, no thanks!

Ohh? Are you talking about the crusaders?
Hey man, I was gonna write up on everything you wrote up there. Much of your text is absolute bo!!ock$ in my school of thought.

But then you are apparently going to exercise your Quran on me again. It's gonnabe an endless cycle.

Why don't we do something useful? Let's take on the atheists. I find them more annoying

Do feel free to back me up on the existence of God, next time. At least we have some common ground there.

Peace be upon you. brother!
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,259,179 times
Reputation: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
May God forgive you for casting aspersions on the Prophet that is called God's Friend - the Prophet Abraham a.s. Hagar was descended from Egyptian royalty and despite your aspersions..she was legally married to Abraham a.s and thus deserves the title of wife of Abraham a.s Thus the Prophet Ishamel a.s was a legitimate child of Abraham a.s and was the only child of Abraham and he was the son commanded by God to Abraham to make the ritual sacrifice. Look it up in your bible..it quote Isaac but yet mentioned only chiild. At the time of the ritual Isaac was not even born yet! So you can see that the only jealousy or rivalry that existed was that of the jewish scribes who purposely edited the gosples of that era to reflect their prejudices!

You say that the Angel who appeared before Prophet Muhammad s.a.w was satan? Could it also be satan then that supposedly disguised his voice and never showed himself to Paul and yet claimed to be Jesus and taught him the tenets of the trinity? I mean, all this while, messengers were sent down to shephard the flock and now we are supposed to believe that Jesus was the exception to the norm? We have to accept the words of a a man who had never met Jesus much less walk his path In saying all that, you are indirectly saying that the Quran is from satan. Pray tell, would satan sanction a book that has the faithful sought God's refuge from the accursed satan before reciting any verses from the Quran?
Hagar was a concubine, not Abraham's "legitimate wife" given to him by God. History has documented this very well.

Concubines have limited rights of support from the man, and their offspring are publicly acknowledged as the man's children, albeit of lower status than children born by the official wife or wives.



The Bible says that it was Isaac, not Ishmael. To say that Isaac was not born is an out and out lie.

Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

The reason that it emphasizes "thine only son" is because Isaac was the only legitimate son that Abraham had. Ishmael was born of the bondwoman, therefore he was illegitimate and was sent away. The scriptures also say that Abraham loved Isaac. This was never said about Ishmael. Abraham kept around the son that he loved and sent away the one that he didn't love. Plain and simple.

Personal note - could you stop with the "pray tell" thing. It doesn't make you sound intelligent, it just makes you sound silly.
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,387,178 times
Reputation: 3735
Default Welcome to The Borg Hive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
Hehehe...You should see some of the monks in my neighbourhood....Some of them wear Rolexes
The better soz they can keep their appointments with destiny! Right down to the second!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post

Why don't we do something useful? Let's take on the atheists. I find them more annoying

Do feel free to back me up on the existence of God, next time. At least we have some common ground there.

Peace be upon you. brother!
Ohhh Geeeez, Collossus... and here I was all ready to send you & braderjoe your free membership welcoming packages, free secret Onyx decoder rings and special invisible "hand-of-god" writing ink.... you know, to join the Unknown Atheists of the World (you know, the UAW. And all along you thought they were a bunch of drunken GM workers.... pretty good little ploy for hiding amongst the fundies, wouldn't you say?)

For a pair of clever fellows like yourselves to just accept the mindless thinking and power-plays of them Christians? I'm frankly surprised; I'd expected a more, well, independant sort of "in yur face, fella!" mindset. you know, like Doc. Dawkins? Golly I shurdoo like him!

Maybe I can get'cha turned around though. More "Evolved", as it where. After all, in the face of irrefutible logic, and charming science (...rising enchanting music of the spheres swelling majestically in the background..), how can you resist?

It's futile, remember?
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,020 posts, read 25,599,820 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
The better soz they can keep their appointments with destiny! Right down to the second!



Ohhh Geeeez, Collossus... and here I was all ready to send you & braderjoe your free membership welcoming packages, free secret Onyx decoder rings and special invisible "hand-of-god" writing ink.... you know, to join the Unknown Atheists of the World (you know, the UAW. And all along you thought they were a bunch of drunken GM workers.... pretty good little ploy for hiding amongst the fundies, wouldn't you say?)

For a pair of clever fellows like yourselves to just accept the mindless thinking and power-plays of them Christians? I'm frankly surprised; I'd expected a more, well, independant sort of "in yur face, fella!" mindset. you know, like Doc. Dawkins? Golly I shurdoo like him!

Maybe I can get'cha turned around though. More "Evolved", as it where. After all, in the face of irrefutible logic, and charming science (...rising enchanting music of the spheres swelling majestically in the background..), how can you resist?

It's futile, remember?
No worries, mate.That was a joke.

I don't have the energy and time to respond and him responding and the endless cycle, thereafter.

The Joe name made me assume he was another misguided christian boy, kind of out of place with his faith of birth. But he sounds like a Muslim. Debating with one is like running into the dead end. He's not gonna give up, and he's not gonna make me give up. It would be futile, obviously.

I went to school with boys as him. They kept their boundaries, we kept ours We never discussed religion, or never made friends either. Their parents would come whisk them away. It was a catholic school, by the way. And parents generally put their kids in catholic schools back home, despite the difference in religion, owing to the orderliness and level of learning.
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Old 03-16-2009, 11:00 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 13,061,325 times
Reputation: 3984
[quote=shawn_2828;7885207]


Fighting Jesus never fought ).



QUOTE]


Yeah right! try telling that to the money changers!!! You know, the ones he threw out of the temple!! Or, didn't you read that part?
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