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Old 03-16-2009, 11:52 PM
 
40,116 posts, read 26,772,494 times
Reputation: 6051

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
No worries, mate.That was a joke.

I don't have the energy and time to respond and him responding and the endless cycle, thereafter.

The Joe name made me assume he was another misguided christian boy, kind of out of place with his faith of birth. But he sounds like a Muslim. Debating with one is like running into the dead end. He's not gonna give up, and he's not gonna make me give up. It would be futile, obviously.

I went to school with boys as him. They kept their boundaries, we kept ours We never discussed religion, or never made friends either. Their parents would come whisk them away. It was a catholic school, by the way. And parents generally put their kids in catholic schools back home, despite the difference in religion, owing to the orderliness and level of learning.
Very accurate . . . after all some of them are willing to blow themselves up for this Allah of theirs because of the strength of their ridiculous beliefs just to destroy a few infidels or Jews. A forum debate is going to achieve nothing.
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:48 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,281,343 times
Reputation: 4279
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i allready trying to find rational solutions with you

what can muslims do but to refute such allegations , what can muslims do but to condemn such crimes happens in the name of islam ?

are you have rational solution which will be accepted universally . and which muslims should to be responsible on muslims criems in the world ?
what about other crimes commited in the name of christianity (i know that you ar not christian but i share them to find solution ) ? who is responsible for the crimes of J.B who consider his mission to be holy mission ?

if you condemned whole muslims because of group of them , it will be unjust judgement

you can't judge on entire religion by picking up odd cases happens in muslims countries , even if it was saudia
if you wanna to judge the relegion so it should to be through discussion the religion itself
Hi elwill,

Ever since I traveled to various parts of the Middle East I admittedly had my mind changed about many of the people and their ways and cultures. I think there is a rather grand misconception of the people who live in the Middle East (who are generally Muslim by default) as being barbaric and bronze-aged. I won't lie, I think there are some things I really don't agree with in Middle-Eastern society that have been heavily, if not entirely, influenced by the Muslim religion. All in all, I will say that I do not find the subjugation of women that is very prevalent in that society to be one of a very progressive nature.

However, I will say this:

When I was in Kuwait, I befriended a man by the name of Muhammad and he was a very kind man, devoutly Muslim in every way (at least to me he seemed so) and he respected my non-belief much more so than many Christians I have met. He never tried to coerce me or threaten me to believe in any sort of God; he was a friend. Despite repeated invitations to visit his family off the military base I was at, I was restricted from doing so from the base command so I reluctantly had to decline. It was no matter to him, though. One day he brought to not just me but to everyone in my workgroup a feast for kings. The foodstuffs were absolutely remarkable and we all thanked him heartily.

I met a few other Kuwaiti's in my time there who I liked and were very similar but Muhammad was probably the guy I most closely related to. His idiosyncracy's of the English language were always amusing as I'm sure my Arabic ones were as well. I learned a bit about the culture, a bit about Islam, and most of all I learned that people on this Earth are people - and very often good people.

I think there are genuinely decent Muslim people in this world, by and large, I think many of them are good. Unfortunately, much of the Muslim world has devoted itself to what I think are very archaic and indeed barbaric frames of thought that have been heavily influenced by the more esoteric and primitive methodologies passed down from very strict and ill-intentioned holy teachers who try to govern much of the world with interpretations of the Koran that can seem barbaric at best and patently destructive at worst.

I tend to think of Muhammad (my friend, not the prophet) as a more progressive Muslim, a man of deep faith and genuine honor, willing to bend over backwards for those people he thought were special. I suppose you could say he left a rather strong impression on me as what I typified (in my mind) as the embodiment of what Islam strives for.

I've experienced the other side of the coin too. I've been to Iraq after the invasion where Muslims did shoot at us, they did launch rockets and mortars at our bases, and there were many times where they landed frighteningly close. It's so hard for me to look at my friend Muhammad and think the same book that seemed to influence him to be such a wonderful man was the same book that compelled people, or at the least, gave them an excuse to willingly try to kill another person. I don't necessarily agree with my reasoning for being in Iraq but I know full well those who shot at us did so because they fully believe they were justified by the Koran in doing so.

I would like to think of the Muslim world as the one my friend Muhammad represented and showed me - not the other side of it that I saw. I think Islam has a long way to go in showing the world that it's ready to stand up and prove that it can relinquish its barbaric and eccentric ways.

I'm sure I'm rambling by now but I hope that makes sense.

Assalamu Alaikum

Or as Muhammad would say...

Peace Out! Duuuuudes!
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:09 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,379 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
Do you know why there were Jewish tribes living in Medina around the time of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w arrival on this earth? It was because their learned men had studied their scriptures and the prophecy was that the messiah the jews were waiting for would be born somewhere in the land of Arabia. They settled there to await the messiah's arrival, confident that the Promised One would be jewish, but of course. Of course, when it turned out the Promised Messiah was Arab, they couldn't handle it.
hi , bradejroe
it's great discussion you made here
just allow me to back up this point from Old testament itself

"And he (Moses) said, the Lord came from Sinai, and rose from Seir unto them; he shined Forth from Mount Paran (that is in Arabia), and he (Muhammad) came with Ten Thousand Saints: from his right hand went a fiery law For them.
(HOLY BIBLE) Deuteronomy 33: 2"

This Passage talks about the three places that the blessing will come, the first: Sinai Mountain, where Moses (PBUH) spoke to God. The second: Sair, a mountain in the land of Judas, (See Joshua: 15/10), and the third: Paran mountain.
The Holy Bible’s passages in which "Paran" is mentioned tell us that it is located in the southern part of the Palestinian desert. However, the Torah also mentions that Ishmael grew up in the wilderness of Paran. (See Genesis: 21/21), and historically agreed ishmail (pbuh) that grew up in Makkah in Hijaz.
The historical evidence indicates that Paran is Hijaz, where Ishmael and his father build the Ka’aba, and where the well of Zamzam sprang under his feet.


Last edited by elwill; 03-17-2009 at 11:52 AM..
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:37 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,379 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
Hi elwill,

Ever since I traveled to various parts of the Middle East I admittedly had my mind changed about many of the people and their ways and cultures. I think there is a rather grand misconception of the people who live in the Middle East (who are generally Muslim by default) as being barbaric and bronze-aged. I won't lie, I think there are some things I really don't agree with in Middle-Eastern society that have been heavily, if not entirely, influenced by the Muslim religion. All in all, I will say that I do not find the subjugation of women that is very prevalent in that society to be one of a very progressive nature.

However, I will say this:

When I was in Kuwait, I befriended a man by the name of Muhammad and he was a very kind man, devoutly Muslim in every way (at least to me he seemed so) and he respected my non-belief much more so than many Christians I have met. He never tried to coerce me or threaten me to believe in any sort of God; he was a friend. Despite repeated invitations to visit his family off the military base I was at, I was restricted from doing so from the base command so I reluctantly had to decline. It was no matter to him, though. One day he brought to not just me but to everyone in my workgroup a feast for kings. The foodstuffs were absolutely remarkable and we all thanked him heartily.

I met a few other Kuwaiti's in my time there who I liked and were very similar but Muhammad was probably the guy I most closely related to. His idiosyncracy's of the English language were always amusing as I'm sure my Arabic ones were as well. I learned a bit about the culture, a bit about Islam, and most of all I learned that people on this Earth are people - and very often good people.

I think there are genuinely decent Muslim people in this world, by and large, I think many of them are good. Unfortunately, much of the Muslim world has devoted itself to what I think are very archaic and indeed barbaric frames of thought that have been heavily influenced by the more esoteric and primitive methodologies passed down from very strict and ill-intentioned holy teachers who try to govern much of the world with interpretations of the Koran that can seem barbaric at best and patently destructive at worst.

I tend to think of Muhammad (my friend, not the prophet) as a more progressive Muslim, a man of deep faith and genuine honor, willing to bend over backwards for those people he thought were special. I suppose you could say he left a rather strong impression on me as what I typified (in my mind) as the embodiment of what Islam strives for.

I've experienced the other side of the coin too. I've been to Iraq after the invasion where Muslims did shoot at us, they did launch rockets and mortars at our bases, and there were many times where they landed frighteningly close. It's so hard for me to look at my friend Muhammad and think the same book that seemed to influence him to be such a wonderful man was the same book that compelled people, or at the least, gave them an excuse to willingly try to kill another person. I don't necessarily agree with my reasoning for being in Iraq but I know full well those who shot at us did so because they fully believe they were justified by the Koran in doing so.

I would like to think of the Muslim world as the one my friend Muhammad represented and showed me - not the other side of it that I saw. I think Islam has a long way to go in showing the world that it's ready to stand up and prove that it can relinquish its barbaric and eccentric ways.

I'm sure I'm rambling by now but I hope that makes sense.

Assalamu Alaikum

Or as Muhammad would say...

Peace Out! Duuuuudes!
thank you for your addition , it's very good to share your thoughts and your exprience with muslims negative and positive of them

just wanna to say that may be you find me hate the influence of islam in some people , these bad influences happens in every religion and it's not encouragment by religion itself , it's just misunderstanding from some groups to the teaching of thier religion

by the way , i'm not surprised that muslims launch rockets at you in iraq , anyone can understand why muslims rocket at you in iraq , i'm even surprised from your comarison

come to me in peace , i will wellcome you in my country
but to impose yourself in my land with your military forces ! , sorry don't expect a big hug from me

just show you the other side . (it's not about religions at all , it's about dignity )

alsalm alaikom , and shokran for your comments
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Old 03-17-2009, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,379,377 times
Reputation: 3735
Interesting stats on suicides in the following countries; numbers per 100k!

#1 Finland: 44 per 100,000 people
#2 France: 28.5 per 100,000 people
#3 Austria: 25.2 per 100,000 people
#4 Denmark: 23.9 per 100,000 people
#5 Belgium: 23 per 100,000 people
#6 Switzerland: 21.8 per 100,000 people
#7 Sweden: 21 per 100,000 people
#8 Canada: 19.2 per 100,000 people
#9 Japan: 16.2 per 100,000 people
#10 Australia: 15.9 per 100,000 people
#11 Germany: 15.8 per 100,000 people
#12 United States: 15.3 per 100,000 people
#13 Ireland: 15.2 per 100,000 people
#14 New Zealand: 14.8 per 100,000 people
#15 Netherlands: 14.2 per 100,000 people
#16 United Kingdom: 11.4 per 100,000 people
#17 Italy: 7.7 per 100,000 people


The gun-totin' US? Waaayy down there, sorta near the vaunted Netherlands. Look at those countries near the top, though, and consider their gun legislation levels. Those darned Italians seem to be most at peace!

Guess that statistic was also a lie, eh, "ya"?
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Old 03-17-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,379,377 times
Reputation: 3735
Talking More true stats to refute the onslaught of lies...

Police efficiency (measured by successful convictions).

This'n's a REAL eye-opener for the TD-ya man!

#1 United States: 89%
#2 Canada: 87%
#3 New Zealand: 79%
#4 Austria: 76%
#5 Australia: 76%
#6 United Kingdom: 72%
#7 Denmark: 71%
#8 Finland: 70%
#9 Norway: 70%
#10 Japan: 69%
#11 Germany: 67%
#12 Switzerland: 67%
#13 France: 65%
#14 Belgium: 64%
#15 Sweden: 61%
#16 Italy: 54%
#17 Netherlands: 52%

Golly, I sure wish I could live there!
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,281,343 times
Reputation: 4279
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
just wanna to say that may be you find me hate the influence of islam in some people , these bad influences happens in every religion and it's not encouragment by religion itself , it's just misunderstanding from some groups to the teaching of thier religion
I do agree with you, elwill. I think religious texts can be used for many purposes (good or evil) as history has proven time and again. Sadly, it is the human race that takes advantage of such things for its own maligned purposes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
by the way , i'm not surprised that muslims launch rockets at you in iraq , anyone can understand why muslims rocket at you in iraq , i'm even surprised from your comarison
Oh, I can understand that too, elwill. Believe me, I don't think the U.S. being in Iraq was justified in any way whatsoever and I wholeheartedly disagreed with it from the very first day. I was not trying to imply that I was surprised that they shot rockets at us but that the same book my friend Muhammad clearly used to be such a generous and wonderful person was the same book the Muslims shooting at us used to ultimately justify their actions - the holy jihad handed down by a fatwah determined by a religious zealot somewhere. Believe me, I could understand them just being pissed off and shooting at us because we invaded, but I'm rather certain there was much more behind it than just that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
come to me in peace , i will wellcome you in my country
but to impose yourself in my land with your military forces ! , sorry don't expect a big hug from me
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
just show you the other side . (it's not about religions at all , it's about dignity )
Yes... Dignity...

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
alsalm alaikom , and shokran for your comments
Wa alaikum assalam
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Old 03-17-2009, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,020 posts, read 25,582,109 times
Reputation: 11309
Hang on a second, where's braderjoe? I see elwill continuing the campaign. Are you guys working in shifts?
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Old 03-17-2009, 02:53 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,379 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
Hang on a second, where's braderjoe? I see elwill continuing the campaign. Are you guys working in shifts?
any objections
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,893 posts, read 31,788,057 times
Reputation: 12634
I have a question about the religion of Islam...How do Muslims feel about homosexuality?
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