U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-13-2009, 05:19 PM
 
500 posts, read 636,150 times
Reputation: 155

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
and why you hate Osama bin laden ? why you hate terrorists ? why you hate extremists ?

i don't need your answers , i know it
just it's the same reaons why packistan , iraq , kuit ...etc hate america as a system , they don't hate them for thier religion and they don't hate them in personal they just hate it's oppression
SO why do non Muslims living in Islamic countries are being prosecuted by Muslims (their fellow countrymen)?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-13-2009, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,794,408 times
Reputation: 5454
I recall an incident in Afghanistan in which a man who had converted to Christianity had been sentenced to death and was only saved by the influence of American intervention. If you live is an islamic nation and don't happen to be a muslim you're in for alot of trouble. In this part of the world you either conform or you're probably going to be executed. As far as I'm concerned the Muslim extremists and even the everyday people who believe in this religion have no tolerance whatsover for anyone with an opposing opinion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2009, 06:20 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,728,067 times
Reputation: 1770
If Islam were just a religion, it wouldn't be so controversial.

But Islam isn't just a religion, it is also a political ideology. To an extent far greater than most religions, it advocates political doctrines and a totalitarian form of government.

It's also an expansionist political ideology, in that it aspires to grow and control of the entire earth. Many of it's adherents believe that it is appropriate to spread their ideology it at the point of a sword.

That's a problem for those of us who believe in liberal democracies, a separation between church and state, and equal rights for women, etc.

I'm not making a moral statement here. Muslims have their right to fight for their ideology, and I have a right to fight for mine. To the extent political Islam conflicts with my beliefs in personal rights and individual liberties, I will fight against it. Any idealogy that is for a repressive totalitarian, authoritarin government, whether it is Stalinism or Islam, I am against.

Political islam gets no special pass just because it is also a religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2009, 06:23 PM
 
4,172 posts, read 5,991,415 times
Reputation: 1199
There is also a cultural element that needs to be considered when discussing Isalm.

In general, Islam of the 3 countires with biggest muslim populations - Indonesia, Bangladesh and India - is more "liberal" than Islam coming out of middle-east. Many people here do not realize that the largest muslim populations are outside the middle-east. You hardly see many muslim terrorists coming out of these countries. Some of the muslim women in India (at least in bigger cities) seem to be quite liberated - like they seem to be in Istanbul. After the Mumbai attacks, muslim priests refused to bury the bodies of muslim terrorists that were killed. There were many muslims in Indian cities that openly protested againt terrorism - something one does not see in many countries - probably never in mid-east.

Last edited by calmdude; 04-13-2009 at 06:38 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2009, 06:32 PM
 
500 posts, read 636,150 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
That's a problem for those of us who believe in liberal democracies, a separation between church and state, and equal rights for women, etc.

I'm not making a moral statement here. Muslims have their right to fight for their ideology, and I have a right to fight for mine. To the extent political Islam conflicts with my beliefs in personal rights and individual liberties, I will fight against it. Any idealogy that is for a repressive totalitarian, authoritarin government, whether it is Stalinism or Islam, I am against.
But if you take a stance and defend what you mentioned above (basically what a Western country stands for), then you will be labeled as racist and a bigot, how would you combat that?

Last edited by Christian Arab; 04-13-2009 at 06:44 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,728,067 times
Reputation: 1770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Arab View Post
But if you take a stance and defend what you mentioned above (basically what a Western country stands for), then you will be labeled as racist and a bigot, how would you combat that?
Just the way I did, I try to draw a distinction between Islam the religion, and Islam the political movement. A person can pray to whatever God they want, and it's not my business, but as soon as they start advocating a political movement to establish a repressive authoritarian regime, then I'll push back.

That counts for the Southern Baptist, as well.

I accept that some who oppose me will call me a biggot, because that's easy to do.

I also accept that there are a good number of muslims who don't necessarly want islamic based governments, like the examples given above.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2009, 11:52 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,858 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Arab View Post
SO why do non Muslims living in Islamic countries are being prosecuted by Muslims (their fellow countrymen)?
where do you live ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2009, 12:01 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,858 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
I recall an incident in Afghanistan in which a man who had converted to Christianity had been sentenced to death and was only saved by the influence of American intervention. If you live is an islamic nation and don't happen to be a muslim you're in for alot of trouble. In this part of the world you either conform or you're probably going to be executed. As far as I'm concerned the Muslim extremists and even the everyday people who believe in this religion have no tolerance whatsover for anyone with an opposing opinion.
muslims not in agreement with that , i personally not agree with it , and there is no verses in quran command us to kill apostates .

but anyway , let us talking about nonmuslims , the apostat afterall is a problem of muslims , not yours . my subject is about nonmuslims and i don't want to revert it to apostates , you can make another thread to discuss this issue , and you will be most wellcome
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2009, 12:15 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,858 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
That's a problem for those of us who believe in liberal democracies, a separation between church and state, and equal rights for women, etc.
with my point view , separation between religion and state didn't spread the peace , it's just spread the violence ( as long as it is separated from religion , so it's not necessery to follow the pecefull teaching of it )

so , the teaching of jesus supposed to be a peace massage for the world . but unfortunatley it will not serve the world if it was separated from it politically , you made your religion a religion of peace inside church , not peace for the world as you suggest

Quote:
I'm not making a moral statement here. Muslims have their right to fight for their ideology, and I have a right to fight for mine. To the extent political Islam conflicts with my beliefs in personal rights and individual liberties, I will fight against it. Any idealogy that is for a repressive totalitarian, authoritarin government, whether it is Stalinism or Islam, I am against.

Political islam gets no special pass just because it is also a religion.
discuss with me how do you see political islam conflicts with your beliefs ?

Last edited by elwill; 04-14-2009 at 01:05 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2009, 12:53 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,858 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmdude View Post
There is also a cultural element that needs to be considered when discussing Isalm.

In general, Islam of the 3 countires with biggest muslim populations - Indonesia, Bangladesh and India - is more "liberal" than Islam coming out of middle-east. Many people here do not realize that the largest muslim populations are outside the middle-east. You hardly see many muslim terrorists coming out of these countries. Some of the muslim women in India (at least in bigger cities) seem to be quite liberated - like they seem to be in Istanbul. After the Mumbai attacks, muslim priests refused to bury the bodies of muslim terrorists that were killed. There were many muslims in Indian cities that openly protested againt terrorism - something one does not see in many countries - probably never in mid-east.
calmdude , i'm from the middle east actually

check this site
Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top