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Old 04-16-2009, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Seattle metro, WA, US
300 posts, read 654,900 times
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Actually the difference between the word of the scriptures and everyday practices was rubbed into the public eyes by Muslim thinkers since 12th century CE and on. Turkish Sufi mystic Veysi wrote amazing book named "Habname" on the subject. ابو حامد محمد ابن محمد الغزالی was lamenting on the subject and many others. Didn't change a thing. Might makes right.
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,884 posts, read 31,780,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
when someone pray or fast , it will be for himself , no punishment from society to those whom didn't fast or pray because simply they didn't harm society

as for countries you don't like thier culture , don't visit or live in it . it's simple as that

i don't expect from you to like the culture of muslims , i just want you to understand it
I understand sharia well enough to know that I wouldn't want to live in any country that was governed by it, or for that matter governed by any religion. It hinders progress and strips people of their human rights. Myths are not a solid base to form a government on.
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:17 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I understand sharia well enough to know that I wouldn't want to live in any country that was governed by it, or for that matter governed by any religion. It hinders progress and strips people of their human rights. Myths are not a solid base to form a government on.
i hope for you good life and peace wherever you live
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:22 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,085 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Thanks for your response.

That sounds fair. Also, I am not going to tell you anything, I am only asking questions. You know more about this subject than I do.
it's okey , i don't know really how the media represent islam to you in west , i just can imagine it
i don't ask you to reject what you know about islam from the media , i just want you to verify from it (and it's a good chance to meet muslims in this forum from all the world . east and west , males and females to ask some questions )


Quote:
But I would add, it sounds like you don't need to convince us about what Islam is all about, it sounds like you need to convince the other muslims and governments. Because other people will tell us, with equal authority that you do, that in fact the law is clear that you should kill anyone that mocks God, anyone that turns away from God, etc.
let me clear for you somthing about the way i like to depate
i don't follow the openions of anyone blindness , when i describe to you my view or my interpretation i give you my reasons which lead me to such interpretation
if as you say that other people told you that they should kill anyone apostate so i have to ask about thier reasons and reasoning then check it and compare it with my reasons , if they have nothing to convince me with thier openion i will refuse it
so that i didn't tell you that others are wrong and i'm right . all i asked is to tell me what they said ? and what is thier reasons . i don't try to tell you i'm right , i just trying to convince you practically why i'm right

Quote:
Let me ask you, are you wahhabi, salafism, etc? Given that you are from Egypt, I assume you are some form of Sunni.
i'm sunni and i think that wahhabi are sunni either , wahabi isn't different sect . it's just group of muslims based in arabia


Quote:
At any rate, is the interpretation of Islamic law you are describing the same interpretation that is accepted in wahhabism?
Thanks
i can't say that i disagree with them entirely nor i can say i agree with them entirly , you have to specify the case

and i disgree with you when you saying interpretation of islamic law , there's no differes in the the islamic law which mentioned in quran and sunnah . the differes of views may be raised according to the issues which not mentioned in quran nor sunnah
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:01 PM
 
995 posts, read 1,202,155 times
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Its simple actually. As quoted by the US based muslim rap group 'Soldiers of Allah' -
"Islam is complete. We have system, they have only religion"
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Old 04-17-2009, 02:36 AM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,510,105 times
Reputation: 879
Default What Am I Misunderstanding

Saudi judge refuses to annul 8-year-old's marriage - CNN.com

Explain how this is not raping a small child. This is shariah. How am I misunderstanding. How! Every sunni muslim prays to the east towards Mecca. Mecca's law is shariah. Sharia law allows a 50+yo man to consumate the marriage to a 8yo girl, maybe he'll wait until she is nine like muhamad did.

Short youtube video of shariah in action: http://avideditor.wordpress.com/2009...an-sharia-law/

What am I misunderstanding?
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Old 04-17-2009, 03:31 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,085 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by mossomo View Post
Saudi judge refuses to annul 8-year-old's marriage - CNN.com

Explain how this is not raping a small child. This is shariah. How am I misunderstanding. How! Every sunni muslim prays to the east towards Mecca. Mecca's law is shariah. Sharia law allows a 50+yo man to consumate the marriage to a 8yo girl, maybe he'll wait until she is nine like muhamad did.

Short youtube video of shariah in action: 17-Year-Old Girl Beaten By Holy Warriors in Pakistan - Sharia Law Avid Editor’s Insights

What am I misunderstanding?
i think that i codemned what the father did in another thread .

according to the judgement , actually i didn't studied thier legal system nor i attend the court to know the details of the case , but i read in another site that the mother who asked the devorce for her daughter can't represent her because she devorced from the father

but if your objectection about the age of marriage . so it was silent issue in islam religion , no harm from limiting it and no harm from allaowing it .
exactly , the same as your laws two centuries ago , age of marriage wasn't limited . go ask your grandmother about her age when she married .
don't expect from all the world to change thier culture according to your standards , we are differs , the culture is differs and the environment is differs and tradition is differ and the laws of our countries is differ , i actually wonder what if your country dosn't limit the age of marrige , may be can we find such odd cases between nonmuslims either ! , you people need to learn how to lives in harmony with different cultures

it was norm in the time of mohmed (pbuh) to marry in this age , no more no less , no justification and no prohibition about it , it's completely silent issuee , no one ever raised it untill these days ( according to the laws of the west )
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:03 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,731,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
devorced from the father

but if your objectection about the age of marriage . so it was silent issue in islam religion , no harm from limiting it and no harm from allaowing it .
exactly , the same as your laws two centuries ago , age of marriage wasn't limited . go ask your grandmother about her age when she married .
don't expect from all the world to change thier culture according to your standards , we are differs , the culture is differs and the environment is differs and tradition is differ and the laws of our countries is differ , i actually wonder what if your country dosn't limit the age of marrige , may be can we find such odd cases between nonmuslims either ! , you people need to learn how to lives in harmony with different cultures

it was norm in the time of mohmed (pbuh) to marry in this age , no more no less , no justification and no prohibition about it , it's completely silent issuee , no one ever raised it untill these days ( according to the laws of the west )
This is an example of why Islam will need a reformation before islamic societies will be accepted in the modern world.

Just like all the major religions, Islam will need to change. We can't keep the moral values of 2000 years ago. It's not an adequate defense to say "it has always been done that way." The morals of the past are not sufficient for modern times.

"Living in harmony with different cultures" does not extend as far as accepting the molestation of children. The rest of the world has moved past that stage of development, and it is well established that children of that age aren't able to give consent. The most we can do is hold our nose and tolerate, but we can not accept that.

I mean none of this as an insult. But so long as that attitude is the mindset of the middle eastern muslims, they will never be fully accepted by the world community.
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Old 04-17-2009, 06:11 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
This is an example of why Islam will need a reformation before islamic societies will be accepted in the modern world.
i actually don't know why islam need a reformation , is that because laws in the west reformed thier laws ?

Quote:
Just like all the major religions, Islam will need to change. We can't keep the moral values of 2000 years ago. It's not an adequate defense to say "it has always been done that way." The morals of the past are not sufficient for modern times.
and who told you that islam is the same as other religions
what is significant in islam that it will not change according to the time to fit the desire of people it will still the same religion and the same system which revealed 1500 years ago , we believe that islam and it's laws are perfect for all people in everytime , we can't reform the religion of God , God alone havs this right

but anyway , this issue bout age of marriage is allowed to be reformed because it have nothing to do with commands of God in islam

Quote:
"Living in harmony with different cultures" does not extend as far as accepting the molestation of children. The rest of the world has moved past that stage of development, and it is well established that children of that age aren't able to give consent. The most we can do is hold our nose and tolerate, but we can not accept that.
this the culture you lives within , you see others differes , i myself find it strange these days to marry 8 yo girl
but it wasn't the same 200 years ago , all of these stuff are culturely

in your cultures it's normal if you kissed your girlefriend in the street , in other cultures it isn't
in you culture it's normal for the girl to live with her boyfriend out of marriage and bear childrens also , in other cultures it isn't

in your culture the age of marriage is 18 , in others it's just 16 in others is is still 12 in some countries untill today , and some countries there no laws regarding the age of marriage as sauidia
i don't know why people always attach islam , why they didn't blame christianity when it was okey to marry 10 yo girl in the past


Quote:
I mean none of this as an insult. But so long as that attitude is the mindset of the middle eastern muslims, they will never be fully accepted by the world community.
again this issue isnt basic issue in shariah , if your culture can't accept it so it's okey to use shariah and it's okey to reform this issue according to your culture
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Old 04-17-2009, 06:43 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,731,342 times
Reputation: 1770
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post

and who told you that islam is the same as other religions
what is significant in islam that it will not change according to the time to fit the desire of people it will still the same religion and the same system which revealed 1500 years ago , we believe that islam and it's laws are perfect for all people in everytime , we can't reform the religion of God , God alone havs this right

That's what all the religions say, but they all reformed. And so will Islam.

You won't call it that. It will all seem natural. New interpretations will become trendy, while older interpretations will go out. Eventually certain versus that were emphasised will become reinterpreted. Ones that were thought to be literal will become an alagory.

It's happening right now. The biggest fights, it seems to me, isnt' between muslims and non-muslims. It's between muslims and themselves. Fighting for what it means to be muslim. Fighting to see if it's the Islam of Lebanon, or the Islam of the Taliban.

It all just depends on who wins the fight. If the people who want to progress win, muslims will come out with a reformation that makes the religion more progressive. Muslims will once again become leading scientist of the world, and interesting things will come out of the islamic world.

If the people who want to regress win, there will be more Taliban style governments, where little girls get acid thrown on their face for going to school. There will be no more significant scientific discoveries in the Arab world for another few hundered years. Islam will remain in the dark ages.

I hope the progressives win, so we can all get a long. But its up to you muslims, not us non-muslims. Everyone else in the world is getting along okay, for the most part. With the exception of muslims, the world is past religious strife. Buddist, Jews, Christians, Hindu, atheist. We have our differences, but we get along okay. It's time for you guys to join us.
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