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Old 04-16-2009, 04:19 PM
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,624 posts, read 11,061,422 times
Reputation: 19980


this thread is for all peoples thoughts on religion or none religious belief. keep it clean no battles.

i used to be atheist but now i am agnostic and still looking for the proof of a single creator... when i was like 9 years old i went to sunday school class with some friend and his parents for a few months.. and it realy confused me.. i could not except somthing that was not tangible i was more a scientific kinda kid and i curesed at god for at least a year after that... but then i started asking god for a sign and still do.. well when i was 27 i got my first sign!!!! i was cuting a branch off of a large tree and the branch swung down and knocked the ladder from under me and i came crashing down and dislocated my arm... but was able to pop it back in.. it hurt like hell. and so i went home and drove up to our shed where i have all my tools stored. and picked up the two chain saws that i had and went to place them on the floor of the shed.. then all of a sudden a 40 pound chop saw that was sitting on top of a table saw started to vibrate violentlly for at least 6 to 8 seconds scarring the holy crap out of me.. i was afraid to enter the shed for at least 3 days all i could do for those 3 days was think about a creator..but being a very scientific person i could some how explain it away with some theory like some electromagnetic force or some quantum phyisics theory made that chop saw vibrate at just the right time for me to see feel and hear it... i have seen a few strang thing in my life time after that but none as dramatic though.. and still not convinced that god exist thats what made me go from atheist to agnostic.. so i am always looking for the signs weahter suttle or dramatic....it is hard to beleave that all the visible univers and beyond was created by total randomness but you never know maybe it was maybe it wasn't always looking for proof.

peace to all.
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:00 PM
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,322 times
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The Islamic creed is founded upon clear and rational analysis, pondering, discernment, circumspection and demonstration. This is why the means used by the holy Qur'an consists in challenging the detractors of Islam to put forward valid arguments in support of their allegations:
"Say: Bring your proof (of what ye state) if ye are truthful"(161).
However, reliance of the Muslims on the Book and the Sunna does not at all mean that they overlook the role of reason in demonstrating the veracity and the grandeur of the Islamic religion. Moreover, the foundations of rational reasoning and logical demonstration are contained in the holy Qur'an. This is why the latter advocates -in hundreds of verses- pondering, reasoning, considering, science, certitude and a constant quest for knowledge. No other Scripture ever paid so much attention to all these issues. Further-more, the holy Qur'an launched a serious attack against those whose faith was the result of a mere imitation. It has disparaged their way of thinking and made ridicule of them. As a matter of fact, faith that is passed on by way of pure imitation, without certitude nor conviction, cannot be accepted by the scholars of Islamic law(162).
It should be emphasised that in Islam, reason plays a tremendous role in establishing evidence with regard to the existence of Almighty Allah, the veracity of the Message (of the Prophet), and so forth. However, it is certain that this role cannot reach far enough as to penetrate the mysteries of the suprasensible world, the metaphysics, the deep nature of the divine existence, and the like. The sphere of predilection of reason is limited to the materially sensed; but this does not prevent reason from searching, through the analysis of that which is readily accessible to the mind, for evidence on the existence of the Creator. Once the human mind reaches faith in Allah and in the veracity of the Message of the Prophet, it has to believe in all that the Sincere Truthful has heralded, because if it exerted itself to apprehend the invisible world, without being guided by the true Revelation, it would certainly end by going astray and in disaster. This is why Islam has indicated to reason what its own field should be, so as to be inventive and productive in its apprehension of this substantial and temporal world.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:57 PM
995 posts, read 1,201,876 times
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Yes....make your own prayers to God. Be sincere and asked that you be led to the true and straight path to worship Him. And that you are unsure which of the religions is the true path and that you desire His Compassion and show you the way. Insyallah..if you are really sincere enough, the Truth will be revealed to you.
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:07 PM
995 posts, read 1,201,876 times
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Well Cruxan since you take science to your heart. Let me paste here an interesting story regarding human embryology. Just one subject so its much easier to focus. Interesting enough, the scientist still remains in his faith so this is not some brainwashing thing. It just goes to show that even with all the evidence pointed towards a person, unless he is given hidayah by God, nothing comes to past. May God grant you Hos Mercy and let you see the light. Anyway on with it :

For two years, a leading embryologist from the University of Toronto flew to and from Saudi Arabia on an unusual scientific mission - to see if he could help explain some verses from the Koran. Dr. Keith Moore's finding, corroborated by test-tube baby pioneer Dr. Robert Edwards, have left Moslem scholars amazed at what the two experts found in the verses that Islamic worshippers have memorized and recited for about 1,300 years.

What they found was an accurate description of the human embryo's stage-by-stage development, which was proposed by Western experts in 1940 and most of which was proved only in about the past 15 years. 'I am amazed at the scientific accuracy of these statements which were made in the seventh century,' Dr. Moore, the chairman of U of T's anatomy department, said in a paper he wrote after examining the verses.

Moslems believe that the Koran was revealed to the Prophet Mohammed by God in the seventh century, after which he propounded Islam, a religion that now has the second-largest following in the world after Christianity. Dr. Moore, a member of the United Church and the son of a clergyman, said in an interview that he is happy with being a Christian and has no intention of converting to Islam.

He said he subsequently examined both the old and new testaments, but could find no parallel to the Koranic verses. Dr. Moore, whose two books on embryology are standard tests and have been translated into several foreign languages, said some of the Koranic descriptions of the embryo in its first 28 days of development were so graphic that he was amazed.

He believes that the verses, along with some of the sayings of the prophet, 'may help to close the gap between science and religion which has existed for so many years.' Asked whether the descriptions may have resulted from crude dissections, Dr. Moore said that at this stage the embryo is about one-tenth of a millimetre long and would appear like a little dot to the human eye.

To discern its shape would require a powerful microscope and microscopes were not developed until the seventeenth century, he said. Dr. Moore was invited to the Kung Abdul Aziz University in Jeddah, near Mecca, two years ago along with Dr. Edwards, whose research at Cambridge University led to the birth of the first test-tube baby in 1978, Dr. T.V.N. Persaud from Winnipeg and Dr. Marshall Johnson from the Jefferson Medical Centre in Philadelphia.

He said Islamic scholars at the university presented the four with English translations of several different Koranic verses to determine if they had any scientific meaning. One of the verses they interpreted read: 'God makes you in the wombs of your mothers in stages, one after another, within three veils of darkness.' Dr. Moore said the three veils could reasonably be interpreted to mean the mother's abdominal wall, the wall of the uterus and the amniochorionic membrane. Another verse read: 'Thereafter, we created of the drop a thing which clings, a leech-like structure.'

Dr. Moore and the others found that the Arab leech bears a striking resemblance to the embryo at 24 days, and Dr. Moore said the embryo does cling to the wall of the uterus at this stage. A subsequent verse says the leech-like dot appears later like a chewed substance. Dr. Moore shaped some plasticene like the embryo at 28 days and put his own teeth marks into it. His chewed plasticene was the carbon copy of the embryo at this stage with pairs of bead-like marks similar to the teeth marks.

The verse noted that only some parts of the substance are distinguishable at this stage and, in fact, the heart and eye lens are, Dr. Moore said. He said verses describe the semen 'gushing' from the male upon ejaculation but fertilizing sperm being derived from only a small portion of the semen.

Dr. Moore said in his paper: 'It was not until the eighteenth century that Spallanzani showed experimentally that both male and female sex products were necessary for the initiation of development'.It is difficult not to interpret the mixed drop mentioned in the Koran in the seventh century as a reference to the mingling of the male and female sex cells described 11 centuries later.'

Another verse talks of the minute, dot-like (nutfa, in Arabic) amount of sperm containing a plan or blueprint for future characteristics and features. Among the collected sayings of the Prophet that Dr. Moore examined was one that said that 42 days after conception, God sends an angel to give the dot-like substance human features such as eyes and ears.

Embryonic research shows that at 42 days the eyes and ears are clearly visible, Dr. Moore said. The angel, according to Mohammed, asks God each time: 'Oh, God, (is this) a male or a female'' Again, modern research has shown that the sex is not distinguishable until the 12th week, Dr. Moore said.
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