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Old 06-01-2009, 02:02 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,730,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartalx View Post
Are you accusing Solomon of being a wife beater and a rapist? How about some evidence.
I was acknowledging that none of that was against man's or God's laws in those times. Read some of the stories in the OT and you'll see that women were often a type of property for men to use at their will.

You understand that concubines were often the spoils of war - sex slaves of a tribe that was concured?
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:19 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,226,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartalx View Post
You haven't done much arguing about homosexuality with Christians have you? Or were you being sarcastic?
Wait, what? Are serious? The Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality?
That's right. It doesn't. Just specific types of same-sex acts, not homosexuality in general. Just like heterosexaulity in general is not condemned but specific types of sexual activity are condemned- like having sex with another man's wife or slave woman or concubine. (aka his property)

The Leviticus verses refer to having sex with male temple prostitutes who dress like women in the worship of the god Molech and goddess Asherah. If you read the verses in the context of the whole chapter, you'll see that the previous verse 18:21 talks about sacrificing children (babies) to the fires of Molech (literally a child sacrifice by burning the baby in the arms of a brass statue). And the following verses refer to the practice of bestiality in worshipping the fertility gods.

If the verse JUST meant "a male shalt not have sex with a male", there would have been no need to add the qualifier "as with a woman". As in "with a sacred male who dresses as a woman." The Hebrew word "zachar" (male) was not usually used for just all ordinary males, but for a male who is sacred or who has some special role. The verse is about idolatry and worshipping of pagan gods, not homosexuality.

All the verses in Levitcus 20 that have the death penalty, are also repeated in Deuteronomy. For Lev 20:13, the matching verse in Deuteronomy 23 says "male temple (or cult) prostitute." The Hebrew word "qadesh" was mistranslated by the KJV translators as "sodomite" but has now been correctly translated as "male temple prostitute" in many English versions. Check it out if you don't believe me.

Besides, anyone who brings up ANY of the Holiness Code laws from Leviticus, needs to either quote them ALL or none of them, otherwise it's just cherry picking.

As for 1 Corinthians 6, try looking up the translation problems with the Greek words "arsenokoites" and "malakoi" and you'll see that they have been mistranslated in some English versions since 1946. The english word "homosexuals" is not at all an accurate translation of either of those words. Before the verse was used to condemn homosexuals in more recent times, it was used to condemn masturbators.


As for the OP and Quran and it's "etiquette of intimate relations"... Yech.

Last edited by Ceist; 06-01-2009 at 07:26 AM..
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:36 AM
 
4,512 posts, read 6,731,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
I was acknowledging that none of that was against man's or God's laws in those times. Read some of the stories in the OT and you'll see that women were often a type of property for men to use at their will.

You understand that concubines were often the spoils of war - sex slaves of a tribe that was concured?
no query? more conquest! one up! (imho!)
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,903,478 times
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smartalax said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn
I ignored no such thing. Is that book there to tell us how we're allowed to have sex?

Uh, yes! It's the Bible's instruction manual on romance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1
Are you serious? Song of Solomon about a man and WIFE?!

Yeah. Did you read it?
Quote:
Do you know how many females this sick-o had?! Hundreds! I'd say it about this sick demented man and his obsession with women! You could say it is about man and WIVES and concubines. This man is called WISE! I never ever got that.....
The story isn't auto-biographical. It's a poem. Sounds like you are judging him based on some preconceived ideas you have about him. You don't know him. Have you studied him?

He's got to know women if he's going to please so many wives.

Judging him based on a preconcieved idea? No not quite. More like forming an opinion based on what the bible actually says about him. Now I thought that god only wanted it to be man and wife...not wives....even from the beginning right? So why is this mentally ill individual lauded as some great and wonderful wise man? They were not all wives....concubines...property....you know the deal.

Last edited by DaniMae1; 06-01-2009 at 07:00 AM.. Reason: missing words...it is early...need more coffee.
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,687 posts, read 49,462,974 times
Reputation: 19134
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
Are you serious? Song of Solomon about a man and WIFE?! Do you know how many females this sick-o had?! Hundreds! I'd say it about this sick demented man and his obsession with women! You could say it is about man and WIVES and concubines. This man is called WISE! I never ever got that.....
Sicko?

He was following Biblical guidelines.

If God does not call a man 'sick' then neither can I.

Keep in mind that the Bible allows polygamy and at times commands it.
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,903,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Sicko?

He was following Biblical guidelines.

If God does not call a man 'sick' then neither can I.

Keep in mind that the Bible allows polygamy and at times commands it.
Ya know I've actually gotten that from OT scriptures too. BUT all of the die hard christians say that god never ever ever changes his mind and marriage is and always has been between 1 man and 1 woman. So which is it? And I don't care what the men of the past imagined god told them. Having hundreds of women is a sign of mental illness.
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:22 AM
 
4,512 posts, read 6,731,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Sicko?

He was following Biblical guidelines.

If God does not call a man 'sick' then neither can I.

Keep in mind that the Bible allows polygamy and at times commands it.

keep in mind also, that the term "enigma" may not have been coined yet in those days, but practice among elitist scribes would record itself .... until appropriately decyphered..
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Old 06-01-2009, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,873,418 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartalx View Post
Uh, yes! It's the Bible's instruction manual on romance.
Song of Solomon is a love story, but it is not an instruction manual telling us how to have sex. If you want to live your love life strictly by that book, you go ahead. I'll stick with "the marriage bed is undefiled" and do what I want to do in it.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,687 posts, read 49,462,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1
Ya know I've actually gotten that from OT scriptures too. BUT all of the die hard christians say that god never ever ever changes his mind and marriage is and always has been between 1 man and 1 woman. So which is it? And I don't care what the men of the past imagined god told them.
Mainstream Christian doctrine today is filled with many things which have been developed over the past 2,000 years. Many of those things are in opposition to the written Word of God.

Many godly men of old were polygamists.

The list of them is long.

A simple majority of the patriarchs, as well as the prophets of old, included.

The Bible never forbids such, not in the Old Testament nor in the New Testament.

And The Law does have the command for it.

So:
It is allowed;
sometimes it is commanded;
and finally it is never forbidden.

Whereas the doctrine of Man forbids many things.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:44 AM
 
4,512 posts, read 6,731,842 times
Reputation: 813
^
... which precipitated way too much indifference, imho.

(or does it only seem so?)
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