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Old 05-03-2007, 10:24 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 16,468,433 times
Reputation: 5224

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lammius View Post
wehotex, you really don't get out much, do you. Ever been to a REAL orthodox Jewish community? or a Hasidic Jewish community?

Get a load of these Hasidic Jews who live in Williamsburg, Brooklyn


^they dress like that every day, all day, and they're in hundreds of communities across the country. Is that a problem too??
No. I have not been to a Hasidic community. the closest that i have come to that are the orthodox jews walking to services in the fairfax area of los angeles. I'm just not in favor of people wearing their religion "on their sleeve" at all times. Just as every workplace has a dress code, I don't think that form nor any form of religious wear has a place at the job. I would venture to say that most americans have never been up close to a hasidic community. honestly, i think that i'd feel out of place though since i wuold look so different.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:02 AM
 
Location: Draper, Utah
618 posts, read 2,552,380 times
Reputation: 491
The muslim veil is not about custom, it has to do with their religion itself. It is a part of their religion. No offense, but I find this question ignorant. I would have done a bit more research before posting a question like this.

Yes they stand out by wearing a veil, but so what? I respect the fact that part of their religion is modesty. Did you know that they only wear the veil around other males, who are not related to them? At home, when they are with family, they remove the veil. I personally would rather see someone wearing a veil, then seeing someone with their stomach and cleavage popping out everywhere. That bothers me much more.

You say that you don't like seeing people wearing their religion on their sleeve, why not? I don't see anything wrong with it. Many muslims are born in America, it IS their country. If we are asking people of the muslim faith to leave their religious dress in their country of origin, maybe we should ask nuns and priests to stop wearing their robes altogether, and leave their religious dress in the country where catholicism originated. Or maybe people of the Jewish faith should have left their religious dress in Jerusalem.

Things that we don't understand, or have little knowledge of, often bother us. Educate yourself a bit on the muslim faith, and other faiths who dress a certain way because of religious views, then you may not feel so bothered by those who choose "wear their religion on their sleeve" as you previously stated.
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:13 PM
 
Location: England
578 posts, read 2,899,386 times
Reputation: 198
This has been a major topic in the Uk recently about the veil being removed as a wanted muslim man dressed as a muslim woman with the veil got through the airport security and the government claims that it just creates more segregation.

There was a muslim teacher that got sacked from her teaching job because she wouldnt remove her veil in the classroom while teaching because males were present.

Many muslims that I know say that the veil isnt part of the religion its just one of the many traditions.

France already take a tough stance on people to be more "french" that live there, so many muslims in schools have to remove all their headwear (veil's, headscarf etc).
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:13 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 16,468,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchy View Post
This has been a major topic in the Uk recently about the veil being removed as a wanted muslim man dressed as a muslim woman with the veil got through the airport security and the government claims that it just creates more segregation.

There was a muslim teacher that got sacked from her teaching job because she wouldnt remove her veil in the classroom while teaching because males were present.

Many muslims that I know say that the veil isnt part of the religion its just one of the many traditions.

France already take a tough stance on people to be more "french" that live there, so many muslims in schools have to remove all their headwear (veil's, headscarf etc).
That's the way that it should be. If the muslims or any immigrant wants to emigrate to another country, he/she should be willing to observe the customs of the country that is taking them in. I also read that the netherlands immigration agency(a country known for its "live and let live" philosophy) showed prospective muslim immigrants a film which showed two gay partners embracing, marrying to give them "fair warning" that the netherlands is a country that does not "stone to death" homosexuals like most muslim countries, but in fact embraces diversity. The european countries are in danger of losing their cultures, which seem to be far ahead of the united states and muslim dominated countries.
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:29 PM
 
Location: England
578 posts, read 2,899,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
That's the way that it should be. If the muslims or any immigrant wants to emigrate to another country, he/she should be willing to observe the customs of the country that is taking them in. I also read that the netherlands immigration agency(a country known for its "live and let live" philosophy) showed prospective muslim immigrants a film which showed two gay partners embracing, marrying to give them "fair warning" that the netherlands is a country that does not "stone to death" homosexuals like most muslim countries, but in fact embraces diversity. The european countries are in danger of losing their cultures, which seem to be far ahead of the united states and muslim dominated countries.
I never put out my opinion on the last post but to be honest I think people need to fit into the customs of that country more which some countries are now trying to do such as France, Australia and I would say the Uk is getting more invloved.

IMO I think muslim women should remove the veil, to chat to someone with a veil is like chatting to someone through a letterbox you dont know who they are and who your talking to its not a pleasent experience and its awkward.

I dont have a problem with the rest of the traditional clothing but the veil isnt pratical in society. As mentioned about the teacher being fired how can kids be taught by someone that wears a veil what sort of teaching experience must that be for the kids.

I know many muslim women that want or would like to dress more western but forced to dress traditionally by the parents it seems each generation will get less traditional.
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Old 05-06-2007, 09:46 PM
 
432 posts, read 1,720,554 times
Reputation: 135
I have muslim female friends who view wearing the hijab as an act of praise, an affirmation of their faith, and they wear it with joy. I would never presume to tell them to "blend in".

But then I live in an area where they are commonly seen, as are a strong community of orthodox jews who also dress the part every day - not hasidim, but modern orthodox who wear yamulkes, (sp?) and the women dress modestly and usually have some kind of head covering even if it is a baseball cap. It is distinctive enough that they can be spotted as modern orthodox in the supermarket or other public places.

Am I offended by hijab and overtly modest dress for religious reasons, or unusual hairdos also for religious reasons (like side curls, or dreadlocks, or topknots)? No.

Am I offended by those who casually wear a rosary like it is just a really cool necklace, no big deal? Yes. But I usually don't say anything because they just MIGHT have a reason for wearing it that I hadn't thought of.

I know of some muslim moms who have given their daughters the choice of not wearing hijab to school - often the daughters choose to wear it daily anyway, because it is such a part of who they are, what they practice, and what they believe. After a while, for many of them, their classmates stop staring because that is normal for them. But they still get the weird looks in the street.
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Old 05-06-2007, 09:56 PM
 
4,270 posts, read 13,969,414 times
Reputation: 3352
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmsvmom View Post
I know of some muslim moms who have given their daughters the choice of not wearing hijab to school - often the daughters choose to wear it daily anyway, because it is such a part of who they are, what they practice, and what they believe.
You are totally right! I've experienced that, too. I asked a buddy of mine in high school why she wore it and said pretty much the same thing: she didn't have to but she wanted to. I totally respected that. She could risk being laughed or pointed at but she chose to be who she is, and that teaches girls self-esteem!
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Curently in Provo, Utah
137 posts, read 390,762 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Because they actually believe what they claim to believe.
here here!
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:42 PM
 
1 posts, read 19,542 times
Reputation: 10
Well is it ok for nuns to cover their head but not ok for a muslim woman of whatever ethnicity to wear her veil. I remember my old man telling me fear a man that has no faith. Any faith. That implies for those that can not read between the lines that if the person has any faith you are not to fear him. Try to understand our religion Islam for what it is. You might even end up embracing it as yours.

Last edited by pittboy77; 06-25-2007 at 12:44 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:10 PM
 
646 posts, read 1,505,747 times
Reputation: 198
There is no dress code for the country as a whole. People can wear what they want, so long as they do not get arrested for indecent exposure. If I wanted to wear a gorilla suit around the city, that would be ok (if a bit weird). Why shouldn't moslem women wear burkas/chadors/headscarves.

They also believe that their religion calls for them to do so. Speaking as an atheist, that is a bit of a silly reason to wear any type of clothing, but as the majority of the country sees religion as a get out of jail free card for all sorts of strange behavior, why should this not apply to moslem women as well?

For what it is worth, in my neighborhood, on a daily basis, I see eastern orthodox monks in long black robes with full grey beards, Indian women in saris, sikhs in turbans, moslems with some variety of concealing robe, jews (although not hasidic) with yarmulkes, catholic priests with white collars, 16 year old girls with micro mini skirts, guys with cargo shorts, etc.

What is the correct apparel that should be worn? Is it appropriate to ask christians to not wear a crucifix, as this is wearing religion on your sleeve?
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