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Old 01-01-2009, 03:14 PM
 
Location: England
307 posts, read 440,184 times
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I am one of the few who support the OP's sentiments.

When you think that in Islamic countries like Afghanistan the burkha is forced on women whether they want it or not, these Muslims in exile seem to be indulging themselves. The same goes for those born outside of an Islamic society.

I find it offensive and hostile. No way on God's earth is it natural or commanded that a woman cover herself from head to toe in this restrictive and insulting costume, with just a pair of eyes peering out at you.

There is a huge chasm in this country and it grows wider by the day. We have had Islam forced on us and the future does not look rosy at all.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Aloverton
6,564 posts, read 12,302,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eHooks17 View Post
I lived in a town in New York near Monticello New York, Hasidics are EVERYWHERE up there during the spring and summer seasons. i would never dare go to Wal-Mart. becasue of all the jews there. frankly they scared me a little because i had never seen them up close
What did you fear that they might do, accost you in a mob and serve you gefilte fish? I don't understand this. Chasids might look different, but they are probably the people you have least reason to fear in this whole country along with Quakers and Amishmen.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:42 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,644 posts, read 74,585,953 times
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same reason they wear them in france. a demand for accomodation.
the fact remains that several muslim countries do not wear the veil (practical decisions imposed by arab strong men) but insistance in the veil is made upon arriving in a new host country, the demand is :"adjust to us not us to you".
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Aloverton
6,564 posts, read 12,302,301 times
Reputation: 10014
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizabeth7 View Post
There is a huge chasm in this country and it grows wider by the day. We have had Islam forced on us and the future does not look rosy at all.
This is a great chance for me to ask you this. Why is it allowed?

I look on what seems to be happening in the UK and ask myself this. Why does your Parliament (which I think drafts your laws) kowtow to Muslims on so many issues? Where is the point where your society says: "Enough. This is England. We have liberty of religious conscience. That means that no one can do this, everyone must do this, and so on. We are not going to orient your jail cell toward Mecca, any more than we will orient it toward Jerusalem or Clearwater. If you don't like the food you don't have to eat it. In certain areas you may not remain masked or veiled for security reasons, and you will either unmask/unveil or you will not go to those places. If that means you cannot get an ID card, then obviously your principles are important enough to you to tolerate the consequences."

I have no basic problem with Islam, but I can't go to Saudi Arabia and run around in my gym shorts without a shirt. That's against their law. They have a right to make their law. So does Britain, doesn't it? Can you shed any light on how this got to this pass?
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:48 PM
 
702 posts, read 2,061,823 times
Reputation: 649
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
You are being unreasonable. The answer is that the muslim girl should dress like everyone else in her peer group.
She is dressing like everyone else in her peer group.

I am so glad to be reading the responses here. A mass majority of acceptance that people have different customs and beliefs.
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Old 01-01-2009, 08:00 PM
 
74 posts, read 127,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
same reason they wear them in france. a demand for accomodation.
the fact remains that several muslim countries do not wear the veil (practical decisions imposed by arab strong men) but insistance in the veil is made upon arriving in a new host country, the demand is :"adjust to us not us to you".
I totally agree. It is arrogance. Many Islamic women dress like westerners and wear just a head scarf to show honor their custom. I view the burka wearing as a political statement and it is an anti-American statement in my opinion. They don't even look at you. People relate by smiling and it is really weird that you only see eyes and you can tell they are not smiling eyes. Do you know that in some some cities (Ann Arbor?) in Michigan there are so many Islamics the call for prayer is heard throughout the city five times a day. Some banks are doing business based on Sharia Law. Some insist doctors offices provide prayer rugs and a place to pray and then there are the footbaths in airports for the taxi drivers!. WTF? That's not accommodation, that's sheer arrogance. Why didn't they stay in their country? Think about it - what could be the reason they came here to do these things? Love of America? Wake up!!!
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:26 AM
 
Location: England
307 posts, read 440,184 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
This is a great chance for me to ask you this. Why is it allowed?

I look on what seems to be happening in the UK and ask myself this. Why does your Parliament (which I think drafts your laws) kowtow to Muslims on so many issues? Where is the point where your society says: "Enough. This is England. We have liberty of religious conscience. That means that no one can do this, everyone must do this, and so on. We are not going to orient your jail cell toward Mecca, any more than we will orient it toward Jerusalem or Clearwater. If you don't like the food you don't have to eat it. In certain areas you may not remain masked or veiled for security reasons, and you will either unmask/unveil or you will not go to those places. If that means you cannot get an ID card, then obviously your principles are important enough to you to tolerate the consequences."

I have no basic problem with Islam, but I can't go to Saudi Arabia and run around in my gym shorts without a shirt. That's against their law. They have a right to make their law. So does Britain, doesn't it? Can you shed any light on how this got to this pass?
The last eleven years under the now very unpatriotic Labour government has seen an acceleration in all things Islam. We have a separate banking system under Sharia law for Muslims, and we now have separate divorce proceedings for them under the same Sharia law.

Our country's history is no longer taught in any meaningful way. Indeed, a feeling of shame is fostered on all things English. The vast majority of people could not care less. Those that do speak up are castigated as 'racist', that tyranical label that strangles at birth any dissention at how we are being turned into second-class citizens in our own country.

The major reason, though, is the continual and incessant demands of Muslims to be treated differently. Most have no intention or desire to blend in and get on with the natives. Islam is an ideology and not a faith.
It is arrogant and never satisfied.

We all adhere to 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do' line of thought, it's only good manners after all. Not Islam. We need a Hero, someone to rescue England and give it back to the people. But I can't see anyone on the horizon.
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 8,042,838 times
Reputation: 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
no, not really. the orthodox jews that i have seen wear the yarmulke on the sabbath and temple services. honestly, i don't know personally any orthodox jews, but do know some israelis who celebrate the sabbath. It just seems to me that every ethnic group in this country eventually gets away from the clothing of its native country and tries to blend in. Perhaps the reason being that he/she would not be discriminated against. For example, does a woman wear a hijab/burka to a job interview? only on certain days or every day? I am Mexican American, but i'll be damned if I would wear a serape to work. I imagine that my ancestors for the sake of survival also had to adapt to united states customs,clothing,language, etc.. Due to their sacrifices, I can prosper here. I'm grateful for that.
Ignorance at best!

The hijab is not "clothing of its native country', it's RELIGIOUS dress. It's not like a serape, that has no religious connotations at all.
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:41 AM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,573,472 times
Reputation: 4979
Quote:
Originally Posted by eHooks17 View Post
I lived in a town in New York near Monticello New York, Hasidics are EVERYWHERE up there during the spring and summer seasons. i would never dare go to Wal-Mart. becasue of all the jews there. frankly they scared me a little because i had never seen them up close
You dredged this thread up from over a year ago (6/2007) just to make an anti-Jew comment? Unbelievable.

They scared you? Give me a break. I lived in Brooklyn , and there was a large community of Jewish people, and I can say I was never SCARED. For God's sake!

Quote:
Originally Posted by elizabeth7 View Post
I am one of the few who support the OP's sentiments.

There is a huge chasm in this country and it grows wider by the day. We have had Islam forced on us and the future does not look rosy at all.
If your Parliament is passing laws that you do not like, then your issue is with your Parliament. Don't you elect the people that make your laws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
What did you fear that they might do, accost you in a mob and serve you gefilte fish? I don't understand this. Chasids might look different, but they are probably the people you have least reason to fear in this whole country along with Quakers and Amishmen.
I, know, it's ridiculous!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
same reason they wear them in france. a demand for accomodation.
the fact remains that several muslim countries do not wear the veil (practical decisions imposed by arab strong men) but insistance in the veil is made upon arriving in a new host country, the demand is :"adjust to us not us to you".
It is not a demand. Some countries allow them and some don't. This is not something that a country should or should not be "allowing". It is a personal decision. Really, huckleberry, do you want a national dress code? What about all the little old ladies going shopping with their heads covered? You gonna say, "hey, granny, get that scarf off your head, we don't allow that here!!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
This is a great chance for me to ask you this. Why is it allowed?

I look on what seems to be happening in the UK and ask myself this. Why does your Parliament (which I think drafts your laws) kowtow to Muslims on so many issues? Where is the point where your society says: "Enough. This is England. We have liberty of religious conscience. That means that no one can do this, everyone must do this, and so on. We are not going to orient your jail cell toward Mecca, any more than we will orient it toward Jerusalem or Clearwater. If you don't like the food you don't have to eat it. In certain areas you may not remain masked or veiled for security reasons, and you will either unmask/unveil or you will not go to those places. If that means you cannot get an ID card, then obviously your principles are important enough to you to tolerate the consequences."

I have no basic problem with Islam, but I can't go to Saudi Arabia and run around in my gym shorts without a shirt. That's against their law. They have a right to make their law. So does Britain, doesn't it? Can you shed any light on how this got to this pass?
same answer for you. We in the US don't "kowtow" to Muslims. Jail cell oriented to Mecca?!?! Are you serious? Yes, that is a bit ridiculous. Did this actually happen in England? Different food, I can agree with. The veil not allowed for security? No, I cannot agree with this, unless you are going to ban long skirts, baggy jeans, puffy down jackets, etc...
What about these topless beaches I hear about in Europe, if they tell you to get naked, that's what they do there. you and or your wife going to strip down, then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizabeth7 View Post
The last eleven years under the now very unpatriotic Labour government has seen an acceleration in all things Islam. We have a separate banking system under Sharia law for Muslims, and we now have separate divorce proceedings for them under the same Sharia law.

Our country's history is no longer taught in any meaningful way. Indeed, a feeling of shame is fostered on all things English. The vast majority of people could not care less. Those that do speak up are castigated as 'racist', that tyranical label that strangles at birth any dissention at how we are being turned into second-class citizens in our own country.

The major reason, though, is the continual and incessant demands of Muslims to be treated differently. Most have no intention or desire to blend in and get on with the natives. Islam is an ideology and not a faith.
It is arrogant and never satisfied.

We all adhere to 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do' line of thought, it's only good manners after all. Not Islam. We need a Hero, someone to rescue England and give it back to the people. But I can't see anyone on the horizon.
The religion is not arrogant. I myself have no problem with seperate banking, if you are a capitalist country, you are serving a customer and if there is a customer that follows certain rules regarding finance, if you want to catch that customer, then you offer a product they what to buy. Considering Muslims don't use interest, I'd think that banks would want them as customers for the savings aspect of it alone, not paying them interest saves the bank money.

And as for the divorce and other mediation services, the parties agree to do it, and if both parties agree, what's it matter. It's not like the muslim is taking the non muslim to an Islamic court, are they? There is also a jewish court that applies Jewish law to parties that agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetweenYouMeAndTheLampost View Post
I totally agree. It is arrogance. Many Islamic women dress like westerners and wear just a head scarf to show honor their custom.
You've got it wrong. Their "custom" is to cover themselves up, including their head, which they are doing. Have you ever been to a predominately muslim country(dress in muslim countries varies)? In some countries, that is what they are wearing there, too. So when they come here and "dress like a westerner" they are wearing the same clothes they just came from their country in. Or, *GASP*, they are ACTUALLY AMERICANS!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetweenYouMeAndTheLampost View Post
I view the burka wearing as a political statement and it is an anti-American statement in my opinion. They don't even look at you. People relate by smiling and it is really weird that you only see eyes and you can tell they are not smiling eyes.
It is not a political statement. I agree it feels strange to run into someone covered up head to toe except the eyes. We really rely on facial expressions to communicate and when we find the whole face covered up it can make people feel uncomfortable.
Just so you know, especially if you are a man, they are not going to look at you. Don't expect them to smile either. If you encounter a woman wearing a full veil, then she is obviously VERY ultra religious and will not be looking at or smiling at random men on the street. If you are a woman, well then I see no reason for them not to smile back, and if you ran into one that didn't, consider that she is just a human after all and may be tired, cranky, having a bad day, just not a nice person after all, suspicious of why you are smiling at her when most people glare, etc....
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetweenYouMeAndTheLampost View Post
Do you know that in some some cities (Ann Arbor?) in Michigan there are so many Islamics the call for prayer is heard throughout the city five times a day. Some banks are doing business based on Sharia Law. Some insist doctors offices provide prayer rugs and a place to pray and then there are the footbaths in airports for the taxi drivers!. WTF? That's not accommodation, that's sheer arrogance.
Well, I don't know about you but I grew up hearing church bells. Now, I know there is a huge difference between church bells and the call to prayer, but if it really bothers people they should take it up with the city through any noise ordinance they may have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetweenYouMeAndTheLampost View Post
Why didn't they stay in their country? Think about it - what could be the reason they came here to do these things? Love of America? Wake up!!!
Like I said, they may be American. And why would you think they don't love America? Just because they don't immediately start dressing in tank tops and short shorts with writing on the ass? Come on, did it occur to you they do love America because, like those that settled this country, they can be free to practice their religion?
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Aloverton
6,564 posts, read 12,302,301 times
Reputation: 10014
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizabeth7 View Post
The last eleven years under the now very unpatriotic Labour government has seen an acceleration in all things Islam. We have a separate banking system under Sharia law for Muslims, and we now have separate divorce proceedings for them under the same Sharia law.

Our country's history is no longer taught in any meaningful way. Indeed, a feeling of shame is fostered on all things English. The vast majority of people could not care less. Those that do speak up are castigated as 'racist', that tyranical label that strangles at birth any dissention at how we are being turned into second-class citizens in our own country.

The major reason, though, is the continual and incessant demands of Muslims to be treated differently. Most have no intention or desire to blend in and get on with the natives. Islam is an ideology and not a faith.
It is arrogant and never satisfied.

We all adhere to 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do' line of thought, it's only good manners after all. Not Islam. We need a Hero, someone to rescue England and give it back to the people. But I can't see anyone on the horizon.
So the reason why is that everyone is so afraid to be called racist, or too apathetic, to bother to take a stand and say: "That's enough of that. This is Britain, and no religion stands above any other except the Church of England, nor is any other religion going to get special privileges. Protest peacefully all you like. Protest violently and we'll call out the Paras--you may ask about their background in Derry if you wish. Protest illegally and we will deport you if you aren't British, gaol you if you are--and if the meal of the day is pork chops, feel free to eat or not eat."

Any complaints from any other nation can be answered simply. "We'll allow all that the day Saudi stops beating up women for an overly sexy wrist display, and the day it becomes illegal to kill your daughter for getting laid in Pakistan. Until then, kindly sod off."

This worries me because while I think my country should take some lessons from the Old World, one area that has been an utter disaster is domestic relations with Islam. I'm a non-Christian who often bitterly resents the preferences and privileges Christianity gets in this country, but got to give them credit: they ask for nothing like the special privileges Muslims have arm-twisted out of Britain. If I have to pick overlords, there's no doubt I prefer the Christians (even the South Carolina variety) to the Muslims.

Here is the hard part for me, watching from afar. I often hear about European political parties or leaders that the media call 'far-right' and 'ultra-nationalist' with the implication that they are borderline Adolfy. I do not know what to believe here, and I do not trust the media either way. I can easily imagine groups proposing exactly what I have above being media-demonized as horrible racists, never mind that race has nothing to do with it. But I can also imagine authentic racist groups where the toothbrush mustache affinity is no joke, because there's more than a little of that in my country in some circles. Are these modern 'ultra-nationalist' groups simply people who are sick of giving Islam the Chamberlain treatment?
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