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Old 09-25-2009, 03:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eanassir View Post
You don't want to learn, but you want to frustrate God in His revelations; so you sought after the ambiguous ayat in order to find some rift in them to say: the Quran is not from God.

Therefore, I ask God's help against the disbeliever; and by God's will you will be frustrated, and will have God's punishment in this World (: the punishment of disgrace) and in the afterlife (in Hell) unless you repent, which I don't think you will do.
  • This is in the Quran 22: 51
وَالَّذِينَ سَعَوْا فِي آيَاتِنَا مُعَاجِزِينَ أُوْلَئِكَ أَصْحَابُ الْجَحِيمِ

The explanation:
(And those who strive to [void] Our revelations [trying] to frustrate [Our messengers] – they shall be the inhabitants of Hell.)
  • And in the aya 34: 5
    وَالَّذِينَ سَعَوْا فِي آيَاتِنَا مُعَاجِزِينَ أُوْلَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مِّن رِّجْزٍ أَلِيمٌ
The explanation:
(But those who work to [void] Our revelations so as to frustrate [Us]; there will be for them a chastisement of painful wrath [in this World.])
  • And in the aya 34: 38
وَالَّذِينَ يَسْعَوْنَ فِي آيَاتِنَا مُعَاجِزِينَ أُوْلَئِكَ فِي الْعَذَابِ مُحْضَرُونَ

The explanation:
(And those who work to [void] Our revelations so as to frustrate [Our messengers]; such will be given over into the doom.)
I m just laughing at your words))) and I again understood that most Muslims are not open to be criticized.On the other hand, I read quran 4 times and I think you have to read this book over and over again without being conditioned especially on the subjects sharing of inheritance, war, abrogation!
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Old 09-25-2009, 03:44 PM
 
25 posts, read 41,473 times
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[quote=eanassir;10912925]You don't want to learn, but you want to frustrate God in His revelations; so you sought after the ambiguous ayat in order to find some rift in them to say: the Quran is not from God.

Now, behold, this Qur'an is the Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds. The trustworthy Ruh (angel Gabriel) has brought it down. Upon your heart (O Prophet), so that you may be of the Warners. In the perspicuous Arabic language.(AAarabiyyin mubeenin)" [26:192-195]

heheheeheh))
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Old 09-25-2009, 03:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eanassir View Post
FIRST:

Let us see what is the alleged contradiction here:

These are the ayat 26: 192-195
وَإِنَّهُ لَتَنزِيلُ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ . نَزَلَ بِهِ الرُّوحُ الْأَمِينُ . عَلَى قَلْبِكَ لِتَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُنذِرِينَ . بِلِسَانٍ عَرَبِيٍّ مُّبِينٍ

The explanation:
(And the [Quran] is the revealing of the Lord of the worlds.
The 'Trustworthy Ghost' [Gabriel] came down with it,
Upon your heart [O Mohammed], that you should become [one] of those who warn.
In a fluent Arabic language.)

In fact their objection is: if the Quran is the clear explanation in a fluent Arabic language; then why have divisions and dissensions occurred?

Answer:
The Islamic nation fell into divisions, only after the manner of the past nations of Jews and Christians.

Each sect of these fell in large number of divisions, and the Islamic nations fell in the same way of dissensions: because of their deviating from the Quran and contradicting the First Commandment: that God is One without associate or son or wife or daughter;

they followed the enthusiasm about their sheikhs and imams, just like the past nations of Jews and Christians who worshipped the prophets and Jesus and the patron saints.

This is in the Quran 98: 4-5
وَمَا تَفَرَّقَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ إِلَّا مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءتْهُمُ الْبَيِّنَةُ . وَمَا أُمِرُوا إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ مُخْلِصِينَ لَهُ الدِّينَ حُنَفَاء وَيُقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَذَلِكَ دِينُ الْقَيِّمَةِ

The explanation:
(Those [Jews and Christians] given the Scripture have not departed [from the monotheism, and fell into divisions]
but only after it had been clearly explained [to them, in the Torah and the Gospel, that they should not associate anything with God.]

They [: Jews and Christians] were commanded only to serve God [alone],
and to devote their service exclusively to Him;
[to Him] is their submission;
being monotheists [according to the religion of Abraham]

and to keep up the [prescribed] prayer and pay the Zakat [alms];

such is the religion of the [apostles who were] guardians [on their peoples.])


This is according to the interpreter the late Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
you mean that hadiths are not included in islam?
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:06 PM
 
1,554 posts, read 1,579,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanuagemaniac View Post
I want to learn if the quran itself is clear or not.as a verse, it says it's clear.here is the verse:

[SIZE=3]Now, behold, this Qur'an is the Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds. The trustworthy Ruh (angel Gabriel) has brought it down. Upon your heart (O Prophet), so that you may be of the Warners. In the perspicuous Arabic language.(AAarabiyyin mubeenin)" [26:192-195][/SIZE]

but if quran clear, why are there so many sects that are contradictory to each other.

On the other hand, I cant understand this quran alleged by muslims that it is a word of God.for example, this verse:

Thus have We sent by inspiration to thee an Arabic Qurán: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities(MECCA) and all around her,- and warn (them) of the Day of Assembly, of which there is no doubt: (when) some will be in the Garden, and some in the Blazing Fire.(42:7)

From this verse, as far as I understand, this quran was sent to the Arabic people cause it says mecca and its around...it doesnt have any word related to the all the world or all the universe...

COMMENTS APPRECIATED...

SECOND:

This is the aya 42: 7 to which you objected:
وَكَذَلِكَ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لِّتُنذِرَ أُمَّ الْقُرَى وَمَنْ حَوْلَهَا وَتُنذِرَ يَوْمَ الْجَمْعِ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ فَرِيقٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَفَرِيقٌ فِي السَّعِيرِ

The explanation:
([Just as had We inspired into the apostles before you, Mohammed, in the languages of their peoples],

as such have We inspired into you an Arabic Quran that you may warn [Mecca:] the mother-city [: the capital or the central and most important city] and those [dwelling] about it,

and that you may warn of the Day of Gathering, wherein is no doubt – a party [will be in Paradise and a party in the Blaze. )


So here if the translator translates literally, it will be: the mother of cities; while it is not like that, but it means the capital or the most important among all cities.

This is only an example; because the word أم means: mother, the worm of vinegar, the essence of anything in addition to many other meanings.

The indication of this is in another aya 28: 59
وَمَا كَانَ رَبُّكَ مُهْلِكَ الْقُرَى حَتَّى يَبْعَثَ فِي أُمِّهَا رَسُولًا يَتْلُو عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتِنَا وَمَا كُنَّا مُهْلِكِي الْقُرَى إِلَّا وَأَهْلُهَا ظَالِمُونَ

The explanation:
(Yet [O Mohammed] your Lord never destroyed cities until He sent into their capital a messenger, to rehearse Our revelations to them;

and We never destroyed the cities unless that their people were wrong-doers.)


Therefore, the mission at the start was confined to the tribe and near kindred of Mohammed, then it included Mecca and the cities round about it, then included all Arabia, then it involved all man-kind and genie-kind.

As in the Quran 21: 107
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا رَحْمَةً لِّلْعَالَمِينَ

The explanation:
(We sent you not [Mohammed], but as a mercy for all nations [and worlds].)
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:48 PM
 
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As in the Quran 21: 107
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا رَحْمَةً لِّلْعَالَمِينَ

The explanation:
(We sent you not [Mohammed], but as a mercy for all nations [and worlds].)[/quote]

in the original scripture, it is given"alemin".it had to be said a word like "dunya".
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanuagemaniac View Post
quote eanassir: "As in the Quran 21: 107
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا رَحْمَةً لِّلْعَالَمِينَ

The explanation:
(We sent you not [Mohammed], but as a mercy for all nations [and worlds].)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanuagemaniac View Post
in the original scripture, it is given"alemin".it had to be said a word like "dunya".

The Quran and the Islam is for all people and all nations

The "dunya" is the World, and the "alemin" are all the beings existing in this "dunya" or World. The word عالم is singular and the word عالمين is plural.

The indication of this is His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 3: 42
وَإِذْ قَالَتِ الْمَلاَئِكَةُ يَا مَرْيَمُ إِنَّ اللّهَ اصْطَفَاكِ وَطَهَّرَكِ وَاصْطَفَاكِ عَلَى نِسَاء الْعَالَمِينَ

The explanation:
(Behold, the angels said: "O Mary, God has chosen you [to worship Him],
purified you [from associating anyone with God]
and chosen you [to bear the Christ] above women of all nations [of your time].")

And like His saying – be exalted – in the Quran 25: 1
تَبَارَكَ الَّذِي نَزَّلَ الْفُرْقَانَ عَلَى عَبْدِهِ لِيَكُونَ لِلْعَالَمِينَ نَذِيرًا

The explanation:
(Blessed be [the glory of] Him Who has sent down the 'Furqan' [: the sundry or sporadic revelations of the Quran] onto His servant [: Mohammed] that he may become a warner to [all] the worlds [or nations].)

And there are many ayat of the Quran indicating this meaning, like the above aya, that the Quran and the Islam is the message to all people and all nations.

Last edited by eanassir; 09-26-2009 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
4:110 - Yet whoso doeth evil or wrongeth his own soul, then seeketh pardon of Allah, will find Allah Forgiving, Merciful.

4:137 - Those who believe, then disbelieve and then (again) believe, then disbelieve, and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never pardon them.


Smack your head more and more, that you may understand the difference between these two ayat.

The first aya speaks about sins in general, and that when man commits a sin, then he repents from his sin, then ask God to forgive him his sin, then God will forgive him his sin; because God is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful.

While the second aya speaks about people who repeatedly believe then disbelieve then believe then disbelieve and increase in their disbelief --> so here God will not forgive such persons.

Moreover, God will not forgive the idolatry and associating others (like Jesus, other prophets, saints, sages and imams) together with God in the worship.

This is like His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 3: 91
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ وَمَاتُواْ وَهُمْ كُفَّارٌ فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْ أَحَدِهِم مِّلْءُ الأرْضِ ذَهَبًا وَلَوِ افْتَدَى بِهِ أُوْلَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ وَمَا لَهُم مِّن نَّاصِرِينَ

The explanation:
(Surely, those who unbelieve until they die being unbelievers, there shall not be accepted, from anyone of them, the earth-full of gold, though he should give it as a ransom.

Theirs will be a painful doom and they will have no helpers.)

Last edited by eanassir; 09-26-2009 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 09-26-2009, 11:04 AM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eanassir View Post
Smack your head more and more, that you may understand the difference between these two ayat.
The first aya speaks about sins in general, and that when man commits a sin, then he repents from his sin, then ask God to forgive him his sin, then God will forgive him his sin; because God is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful.
While the second aya speaks about people who repeatedly believe then disbelieve then believe then disbelieve and increase in their disbelief --> so here God will not forgive such persons.
Moreover, God will not forgive the idolatry and associating others (like Jesus, other prophets, saints, sages and imams) together with God in the worship.
WTF, contradiction HELLO!
God will forgive his sin, then he won't forgive his sin

While you are trying to justify that one, here is another.

16:67 And of the fruits of the date-palm, and grapes, whence ye derive strong drink and (also) good nourishment. Lo! therein is indeed a portent for people who have sense.

2:219 Strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin.
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Old 09-26-2009, 11:11 AM
 
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[quote=lanuagemaniac;10921154]
Quote:
Originally Posted by eanassir View Post
You don't want to learn, but you want to frustrate God in His revelations; so you sought after the ambiguous ayat in order to find some rift in them to say: the Quran is not from God.

Now, behold, this Qur'an is the Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds. The trustworthy Ruh (angel Gabriel) has brought it down. Upon your heart (O Prophet), so that you may be of the Warners. In the perspicuous Arabic language.(AAarabiyyin mubeenin)" [26:192-195]

heheheeheh))

Do you laugh at the meaning of the word of God included in the Glorious Quran? You are certainly very foolish and ignorant.

This is in the Quran 45: 9
وَإِذَا عَلِمَ مِنْ آيَاتِنَا شَيْئًا اتَّخَذَهَا هُزُوًا أُوْلَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ

The explanation:
(And when he knows anything of Our revelations, he takes them in mockery;
for such [mockers] there [will] be a humbling chastisement [in the Barzakh world after death.])
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Old 09-26-2009, 11:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
WTF, contradiction HELLO!
God will forgive his sin, then he won't forgive his sin

God forgives the sins, unless man associates Jesus or others with God, then He will not forgive the sins of such associater and idolater.

So all sins are forgiven with the exception of the idolatry and the association with God: that is associating other beings or other things with God Almighty -- this is unforgivable.

The first aya speaks in general about forgiving all sins in general, while the second aya speaks about the one who dies while he is disbeliever. And the one who does not repent until he is about to die.

God forgives the sins of one who repents and asks forgiveness, not the one that continue on his sin until death comes on him while he is disbeliever, and forgives not the man who associates anything or anyone with God.
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